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How to lose your plane and 35 000 Euro

BeechBaby wrote:

Slanging it out on an internet forum is definitely not the way to go about it. Where is Peter? Thought this thread would have been binned long ago.

Why? Because someone speaks about bad customers experience and might hurt someone’s feelings?

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Emir wrote:

Why? Because someone speaks about bad customers experience and might hurt someone’s feelings?

No, not really. Not interested in anyone’s ‘feelings’.

Fact is what sorts stuff out. Internet forums, generally quote opinion, versions ad perceptions. The old adage of want to ruin a good story? Tell the truth.

As Michael pointed out there appears only a one sided version. As far as I can see Jesse, if that is his name, has not engaged. He should have with his customer, but evidently he has not. That appears the problem. Once communication is lost, the game goes to lawyers.

Hope you guys sort it out. Sounds a right mess.

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

Aircraft ownership and maintenance is a very steep learning curve, certainly in my early days I read a number of the articles on Peter’s website and found them very eye opening which helped me be a little more aware than perhaps I would have been otherwise. An open forum for discussion can help and make people aware of potential issues. I can see this chap has provided some evidence to back up what he’s saying. There doesn’t appear to be much evidence from the other side.

I’ve been going through a very protracted insurance claim on a building which has been affected by some outrageous behaviour by insurers and loss adjusters. It’s likely I will have to go down the legal route so I’m unable to really talk about it. But really I feel it is something that people should be aware of to help them make informed decisions.

Greetings All:

I am the purported “Chief of International Sales” at Aspen Avionics, which by the way is not my actual role or title. However, I am sure that you are aware that there are two sides to every story. Although I am not able to comment on this situation in this forum for legal reasons, you are free to reach me at any time to discuss any Aspen issues including equipping your aircraft with our new non-TSO’d E5 display system or our new MAX upgrade program. Thanks for your interest! My complete contact details are below.

Regards,
Cory Relling

[email protected]

MOBILE: +1.816.604.9441

I support that posting this kind of stuff here is useful.
It’s not the “what” but the “how” that makes it not so useful.
I firmly believe mutual respect is essential in any relationship for it to be successful, be it marriage, war, business, forums or elsewhere. Otherwise disappointment is the result.
Sometimes people do not earn such respect, but I still believe going on trying with respect is usually more effective than giving up, especially when they have you grabbed by the xj%$&lls. Unfortunately with GA being such a small community, the latter is a situation that happens too often. Even if you could give up a relationship, you never know if you would have to use them again some other time.
I have seen it too often, with ARC’s expiring with aircraft in shop, jobs taking longer, CAMOs accusing the former CAMO of a non-compliance that they now have to address at customer’s cost in money and groundtime for what used to be a compliant aircraft…but also customers changing the spec amidst a project, greatly affecting the workplan, unable or unwilling to pay, sometimes after taking their airplane, not taking responsibility for parets or equipment they procured separately…and a lot of other mutually damaging situations.

Reputable shops make mistakes too but unfortunately there are very few of those shops around us. I’d thus be more willing to work an amicable resolution over a mistake than ensuring mutual expectations are satisfied 100%: this will almost never happen when there is this type of conflict: something has to be given up without losing sight of the whole picture.

In this case, there are some conditions to be satisfied for an STC to be approved and usually approval cannot be granted until a couple of weeks AFTER installation on the prototype aircraft. Usually a PtF is required for flight checks, which is usually not a problem and majorly independent of the ARC status. This process perhaps was never clearly communicated by the shop and caused unnecessary misunderstandings and mistrust.

Light GA shops are usually small enough that the owner/boss is also the expert installer and the guy handling customer comms, often failing miserably at the latter, which is obviously a big part of the problem here.

Once the situation gets so personal and all trust is lost, the best is to get a non-conflicted third-party involved. Courts should however be the very last resort as the risk and costs are terrible. I can try to mediate but me being in Spain may add further to the cost if I have to travel, pm me if you think I can help.

Last Edited by Antonio at 31 Jan 13:39
Antonio
LESB, Spain

@pilotmark

A difficult set of circumstance here. Biggest problem as far as I can tell, it is already very late in the game.

Anyway, your circumstances require a “pro” to assist you. I understand your frustration only too well, but there is no success found there.
Been there, done it, T shirt….

Antonio is a very good friend of mine and of our family, but regardless he is a “Pro” in this field and extremely well qualified to give you assistance.
When you perhaps speak to him you will likely find out why that is so.

Change your game plan and turn the tide.

Thanks for the kind words!

Antonio
LESB, Spain

Katamarino wrote:

to warn people to do very thorough due diligence before any agreement with this installer

… or with this customer. Hard to decide, if you get to know only one side.

mh
Inside the sky.
EDXE, EDXF, Germany

Antonio wrote:

I can try to mediate

From what I understand, some time ago the owner of the aircraft engaged a lawyer who tried to mediate. The only thing was to take the plane out of the Vliegwork hangar and carry out the annual inspection. “You can’t do it here because we are PART 145 and you can’t take it outside because you didn’t pay for installation.” Nothing came out of it.

complex-pilot wrote:

Biggest problem as far as I can tell, it is already very late in the game.

thats how it looks.
But regardless, I believe I can make the world a better place by sharing the story. If Jesse + Aspen did it once and got away with it, they will do it again.

LFCL, France

Cory_Relling_Aspen_Avionics wrote:

I am the purported “Chief of International Sales” at Aspen Avionics, which by the way is not my actual role or title.

How is that a significantly different role or title in the context of this thread than International Sales Manager who is “responsible for sales of avionics products in Europe, Middle East, Africa, Asia, and Pacific Rim”?

Last Edited by Silvaire at 31 Jan 20:42
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