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How to pay the seller of an aircraft

I think I’m right in saying that a SEPA payment, once initiated, can’t be recalled. Perhaps if you went to the bank and tried to do so before they’d sent it, they would let you cancel it. (Note this is not my intention… Just that sitting down with the seller and making the payment may not be a viable method of payment if this is true).

As an aside, if anybody is thinking of selling an RV* or LongEZ or indeed any UK permit aircraft that is a fast tourer with ideally some gentle aerobatic capability.. drop me a line.

Last Edited by kwlf at 19 Feb 02:55

Silvaire wrote:

I paid with $100 bills.

Totally illegal in most of Europe for any purchase over 5000€ .

Just saying …

FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

I would like to see a reference for that illegality, country by country. The €500 note was introduced for a very good reason – especially for the one large country in which credit cards are not very popular

kwlf – indeed a bank transfer cannot be recalled, unless there is some criminal element involved in which case the courts can reverse it. I researched this a few years ago when we had a “Nigerian customer” and getting “totally cleared funds” is more complicated than it seems In fact there is no such thing as cleared funds if the payer stole the money… then you get into the law regarding possession of stolen goods (centuries of case law in the UK) and basically you need to be sure the payer didn’t steal the money. In your case you are the payer so that’s not an issue for you.

You can buy a house with same-day electronic payment, and houses usually cost a lot more than 50k.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I would like to see a reference for that illegality, country by country.

Here’s an EU paper on that : https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/eu-consommateurs/PDFs/PDF_EN/Limit_for_cash_payments_in_EU.pdf

Interesting that not all have limits .

Last Edited by Michael at 19 Feb 08:09
FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

They are not limits on legal cash payments.

They are limits on what constitutes legal tender (an English expression for the means of payment which a seller must accept).

[ local copy ]

This means e.g. the €500 note is legal tender (except where specifically banned – is there such a country?) if you are spending €500 but potentially not if you are spending €100. And, in the French case above, due to exact change being a legal tender requirement, potentially not if you are spending €501 and have only a €500 and a €10.

However the document mixes up the two concepts. For example Greece apparently (ambiguous language) wants it traceable above €1500

while the UK case is just about legal tender

Whoever compiled that PDF (looks like another EU grant consumption scheme) didn’t have a clue.

There are separate limits on e.g. the max bank transfer above which the bank notifies the tax authority, so if your money was acquired using interesting means (customary in some southern countries when selling houses etc, involving an attache case, and the mayor having a chair outside the room ) you may need to split it up to keep it below that limit. In the UK this is about 10k but seems to depend on the bank and which branch.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Any bank can make an instant transfer, also across borders, regardless of amount.

They can decide not to offer that to smaller/private customers who are unlikely to go elsewhere for the service, but to claim it can’t be done is simply not true. I know that HSBC will claim it can’t be done, they did that on my last airplane purchase, as the money needed to go from the UK to Germany. Luckily I have two bank and the other bank had no problem transferring the money same day.

I sold a car recently, where the buyer transferred the money from his banking app on the phone while sitting around the kitchen table and it I had the money before he had a chance to look up – maybe 2 seconds. We both used the same bank though….and it was not HSBC :-)

EGTR

We have bought and sold many aircraft using an Escrow service, for example Insured Aircraft Title.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

Can someone describe how exactly escrow works for an aircraft transfer?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

WilliamF wrote:

- Establish who owns the airplane
- Establish no mortgage or lien exists
- Get your pre purchase inspection done
- Agree a price
- Pay a deposit (EFT/Bank Draft/Cash)
- Sign an aircraft purchase agreement
- Collect the aircraft on agreed date
- Pay balance (EFT/Bank Draft/Cash)
- Seller signs registration document
- Seller signs bill of sale
- Seller hands over docs, keys and possession of aircraft
- You fly home

Exactly like this. Payment via SEPA Express. Took one hour after I gave them the clearance to do it.
I prepared everything with the bank in advance and just informed them to make the transfer when I was with the papers and the aircraft (together with the seller).
My bank also sent a confirmation letter (via email) to the receiving bank and the seller.
The whole process took about two hours until the receiving bank had sent a second confirmation to the seller.
Cost for the transfer was about 120€, Bank was Unicredit.

Last Edited by chwinter at 19 Feb 09:26
EDMA, Germany

Peter wrote:

They are not limits on legal cash payments.

There are, at least in France (and Portugal has a very similar law)

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10999 (french only).

Is is very explicitely stated that there are maximum limits for cash payments for instance and that you are not allowed to pay more than 1000 cash to “professional” (I imagine it best translates as entity, or single person if for a service)

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