Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Flying VFR on top, when TRAs are active

Frans wrote:

“Temporary reserved area (TRA) is airspace temporarily reserved and allocated for the specific use of a particular user for a determined period of time and through which other traffic may be allowed to transit under ATC clearance.”

But some other traffic are allowed to transit, as I mentioned in my post above. That doesn’t mean that all traffic will be allowed to transit, or under all circumstances. So TRA is an appropriate description for this airspace.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 03 Sep 14:47
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Frans wrote:

In a normal case, a transit through TRAs should be possible. If all other traffic needs to be banned, it should (according to ICAO standards) be classified as a TSA. Germany uses TRAs like TSAs, except for some IFR traffic with pre-arranged and coordinated clearances.

The trouble is that when it comes to VFR, each country has their own quirks.
TRAs in the UK for example are usually used to allow gliding in airspace that they wouldn’t normally be allowed.
In Ireland we have minimum heights of golf courses!

When it comes to planning VFR flights you must always have an option that does not involve ATC giving you a clearance. That might be turning around and going back the way you came from (thankfully I’ve not had to execute that one yet!). You unfortunately can’t assume that you’ll get an ATC clearance. Some countries are much better than others, but you can never assume you’ll get it without a plan B.

If something happens with closes off your plan B and you have no other option, then declare an emergency and live.

EIWT Weston, Ireland

There are plenty airspaces in Europe where nobody would go unless ~100% sure of ATC clearance. For example SE France – done in various past threads. The VFR chart (SIA, IGN, etc) is basically unreadable – example.

This stuff is highly country-dependent.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Absolutely, even flying through the Swiss or Austrian Alps may end up in CAS, with no alternative. Especially when the weather is playing against you, which happens quickly in high mountainous terrain. Otherwise, I fully agree: Every country has its own specialties and habits when it comes to VFR. In some countries, planning each flight completely outside of any controlled or restricted airspace is simply impossible. Best example here is Croatia, where everything is CAS above 1.000 ft AGL. In other countries like the UK, planning outside CAS is however a must.

Btw. flying through Denmark ends also often in TRAs, which might be active. I had this with the flight from Norway to Esbjerg, where the TRA Vendsyssel over the Skagerrak was active. Kjevik did some coordination and Copenhagen just cleared me through.

To summarize it shortly: Every country needs its own careful preparation, especially for VFR flights. What might be valid or work in country A, may not be valid in country B. This flight made me again very clear of that.

Last Edited by Frans at 03 Sep 18:59
Switzerland

I’ve said this before but this is the main reason for having an IR.

It isn’t for flying in IMC

An IR allows you to

  • stay VMC regardless of CAS
  • fly under ATC control and with ATC responsible for all airspace/RA/TRA/P/ZIT/etc issues (enroute)
  • have ATC working for you (well, except some mad controllers, and they exist in every country – even in the “most proper” ones)
  • implied whole-route clearance
  • a defined lost-comms procedure

With VFR, you get

  • no right to go anywhere in CAS, ever (except where you got cleared into CAS and then you are entitled to a transit of any adjoining CAS… except between Bournemouth and Solent, because Solent doesn’t “get” that, and I’ve got similar in Italy)
  • ATC has no duty to you at all, beyond ICAO FIS and Alerting service (i.e. nothing of any use unless you crash)
  • a controller can just refuse a service, with no reason
  • no implied right to any clearance
  • with lost comms, you are officially fuct if above an overcast (etc)

The above is of course the main reason why the IR has always been hard in Europe, and been much less accessible. FTO interests is another one. It is the political quid pro quo which supports the relative deregulation of VFR flight. If VFR had any rights like IFR has, it would never be allowed.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

On the topic of unpleasent German FIS operators… boy… this afternoon on 123.525, there was this dude again…
Everybody was out and about, enjoying the excellent late summer weather… but this guy is untolerable. A totally annoyed voice, as if to say to everybody “I am totally pissed that I have to spend this afternoon in the office, and you guys are getting on my nerves with your minor mistakes”…

Why would one do this? If you hate your job, find a different one. It’s not that he had “just a bad day”… I “know” that guy from other occasions. He is always more or less so.

Most of the people at Langen FIS ( I actually mean the “ex Langen” team, i.e. western Germany) are great, especially the ladies there. But there is couple of people in that team where, if I don’t really need anything in particular, I just leave the frequency. I guess it’s just like everywhere else.. for x great people, you have y not so good people. Still, I suggest this guy is given another job where he doesn’t have any contact with customers…

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

It might not be a surprise that I can already imagine that demotivated voice, how was talking to you on 123.525. Awful!

Yes, the former Langen team was indeed great. In the past, one could experience a clear difference between Langen and Bremen. The difference is mostly still there, but more and more FISOs seem to switch their positions, as everything is centralized now in Langen. I hear now also more often Bavarian voices on my homebase sector (129.875), how might be from the former Munich team.

Last Edited by Frans at 06 Sep 18:49
Switzerland
37 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top