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Airprox while flying under a low cloudbase

wigglyamp wrote:

If I can be the devils advocate. What would the effect have been if the Robin also had TAS and saw you on his display and took the same avoiding action?

Not related to Peter’s case but when I fly (VFR only) and I see another aircraft on FLARM, I use the same “right of way” rules as in VFR. I also expect the other aircraft to do so.

Peter wrote:

Doesn’t that mean taking no action in IMC and just flying straight ahead, fingers crossed, hoping to not die even if TCAS is showing you on a perfect head-on?

Please pardon my ignorance, but isn’t ATC responsible for collision avoidance for IFR flights? therefore – at least in theory – you shouldn’t come into that situation. But I might be wrong.

Last Edited by etn at 12 Sep 08:30
etn
EDQN, Germany

It was a VFR flight in Class G.

In the UK you can fly IFR in Class G, non-radio and non-TXP

In the UK, many people hold the IMCR but for various reasons (lack of IMC currency being a big one) there is a strong cultural resistance in GA to enter cloud, hence I thought a climb (a rapid one, probably outperforming the other aircraft) was a good idea. It turned out to be the right decision.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

gallois wrote:

Isn’t flying A to B at A3300 or A3700 OCAS against air rules in Europe?

Generally yes, but not if the ground elevation is equal to or higher than 300 ft or 700 ft, respectively.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 12 Sep 09:04
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

So what is the lesson there?

The lesson for me, which I bang on about wherever and whenever I can, is that the Mk 1 eyeball is almost totally useless for the aircraft that is actually on a collision course with you.

It’s the lack of relative movement, especially when combined with a non-contrasting or ‘busy’ background.

Ever noticed how the ones that come a bit close for comfort, you see them late and they make you jump a little bit? That’s because there was very little relative movement, so you didn’t see them until they became very big. The ones you aren’t going come anywhere near have a lot of relative movement and so are much easier to spot.

I have not done the maths to work out how many seconds pass while, at typical closing speeds, the light aircraft on a direct collision course grows from a tiny dot that no-one would ever spot to something that fills the windshield just before impact, but it isn’t many.

We may think we’re seeing and avoiding, and in the circuit we probably are (although that’s mostly based on predictable activity) but out there en route it’s big sky theory that keeps us alive.

Last Edited by Graham at 19 Sep 15:52
EGLM & EGTN

The semicircular rules are not mandatory in the UK. Many people choose to fly at “weird” altitudes to lower the chances of collisions that way.

EGKB, United Kingdom

@Graham – head on if you’re both doing 100kts, you’ve got about 2 to 3 seconds before the other aircraft blooms sufficiently that the average eye can see it – and that’s if you’re not into sun, haze, against a backdrop etc

Posts are personal views only.
Oxfordshire, United Kingdom

Precisely….

EGLM & EGTN

Graham wrote:

The lesson for me, which I bang on about wherever and whenever I can, is that the Mk 1 eyeball is almost totally useless for the aircraft that is actually on a collision course with you.

We talked about this in the other thread – I propose canopy flashers (also available for ELA2 aircraft under CS-STAN)

https://www.stefly.aero/en/product/canopy_flasher/
https://sotecc.de/canopy-flash/

EDAY, Germany

Or ‘wig-wag’ landing lights. Supposedly useful against bird strikes too. More effective if both wings have such lights I guess.

Last Edited by aart at 20 Sep 05:31
Son Alberti LEJF, Son Bonet LESB, Mallorca, Spain

An aircraft on a collision course other than head-on should have at least one wingtip strobe visible.

And if a direct head-on, both strobes should be visible.

I reckon many people fly with strobes turned off. This could be because many GA planes have poor wiring and strobes interfere with the radio.

Wigwag is an option on most LED strobes but one wonders whether it is legal on certified planes.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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