I crossed the channel usually from the east, so I am quite used to managing staying or leaving CAS by selecting the right flight plan and FL on that side. I read all the stories about getting dumped unexpectedly from CAS, and I thought I had it all figured out and getting quite happy with myself and my knowledge of the system, and so far never got dumped out unexpectedly; only when I planned it… Until sunday when I flew from EGJB to EGTF.
I intended to stay within CAS and filed Foreflight suggested route ORIST1F ORIST L982 ERGUM KATHY KATHY1V at FL90, the experienced among you probably already saw my mistake…
I departed and upon passing ORIST at FL90, with my whole expected arrival flight plan and the London control expected frequency in standby I heard: “Leaving control airspace, squawk conspicuity”.
Shock and confusion and I called back saying I was IFR and expected to be handed over to London Control at FL90. The friendly controller responded that I had filed ORIST which required minimum of FL105. She then told me I should have filed ORTAC (6nm to the west!) and then she told me “Be cautious Quebec41 is active”, which also confused me as I started to search on the map danger zone, and asked her to repeat “What is active???”,
But her response was “Quebec 41, but if you fly your filed plan to KATHY you will avoid it”, she felt clearly bad for me. I didn’t figure out on the spot what Q41 was, but I started to frantically reprogram my flight plan keeping KATHY, with waypoints and altitude to hit to stay out of CAS.
I called London Info, and somehow they seem to feel bad for me and asked me if I wanted them to try to help me rejoin CAS. Not sure how they knew, but I felt it was nice. They told me they would call me back. As I was getting close to the shore and needed to descend, I called them back saying that I had to start descending to remain OCAS and they apologized that they didn’t manage to reach London yet. I thanked them and told them at this point I’ll stay OCAS and had it all under control,
The whole thing was quite stressful, but I managed to stay out of trouble, beside my confidence of having “figured out the uk CAS system” shattered…
Back home I went to study what I had missed in my flight planning…
1) it was a round trip, and my way out was including ORTAC so I had not really paid attention to the minute difference on my return and the fact that ORIST was just outside the class A @ FL55 I had just flown in.
2) while I probably should have, I had not noticed the that airways I had flown in the morning was Q41, and that there was one part of the Q41 surrounding airspace was listed at non-continuously class A and reclassified G when non active… So the message “Quebec 41 is active” had really confused me about what she was talking about!
Now, I’ll know to be extremely careful about reviewing the airspaces both ways as small differences matter!
Thanks for sharing! I skimmed previous discussions but your experience shows how disconcerting it can be.
I know this has been discussed to death here, but I can’t remember how this can be squared with the usual rule that only pilots can choose to cancel IFR and thus the usual “advice when ready to cancel” on Y flight plans?
hmng wrote:
I know this has been discussed to death here, but I can’t remember how this can be squared with the usual rule that only pilots can choose to cancel IFR and thus the usual “advice when ready to cancel” on Y flight plans?
IFR was never canceled by ATC. The problem is that you can’t rely on being given a new clearance after it has auto-expired when you leave CAS in the UK.
The route to stay in CAS is via ORTAC-SAM and you can have that if you want it. Solent own the air in their zone up to some level like FL070 and above that it is London Control who are not a good option if going to/from EGKA 
ORIST is for OCAS and I use that every time for EGJA, EGJB…
IFR was never canceled by ATC
Not formally but de facto. Your flight is gone, dead, vanished, like MH370. It is a VFR flight now The UK should file a difference to ICAO 
Airborne_Again wrote:
The problem is that you can’t rely on being given a new clearance after it has auto-expired when you leave CAS in the UK.
Makes sense, I guess. But was the initial clearance only to ORIST??
From the Jersey zone you get cleared to ORTAC or ORIST, and after that it depends; Solent or “London Info 124.6 i.e. useless” and then I call up Bournemouth 119.480 which is a radar unit and thus much better.
The route to stay in CAS is via ORTAC-SAM
ORIST is for OCAS
Yes I learned that the hard way… I was used to “choosing” CAS vs OCAS by flight level (FL80< is CAS for ex)
Of course now I will know to be more careful and what to look for in planning, but is there a list of such point/route tricks? Or is it just really two: the east (FL) and the west (orist/ortac)?
Sorry to hear this. Is it one of those things you’re ‘just supposed to know’ for the UK? Could you have climbed to FL105?
8-10 years ago I had a similar experience with Q41. Jersey Control did explain it to me in plain English, but it took several minutes of exchange on the radio. Q41 definitely wasn’t in any VFR publications then, but I’ve just checked and it does appear in Skydemon if you search for it.
Peter wrote:
It is a VFR flight now
Obviously in class G, there are less differences between VFR and IFR than in CAS, but that doesn’t mean there are no differences. So roznet’s flight was still IFR but without clearance to fly in CAS.
Could you have climbed to FL105?
Yes, FL110+, but then you need a Eurocontrol-validated IFR flight plan, which may be a route you don’t always want to fly. FL110 is OK but in much of the UK you need FL150 or even FL200 to be in CAS. FL150 can take a while to climb to, needs oxygen (!), and is a bit pointless unless you can do it easily. FL200 is really pressurised territory.
On that route there is very little traffic (few pilots fly over that much water) so the safety benefits of CAS are minimal, you will get radar cover from Jersey (who unlike the UK operate IFR correctly), and you are out of glide range anyway.
doesn’t mean there are no differences
Can you think of any practical ones?
That Q41 active or not thing is deeply dodgy and I totally ignore it and assume that Class D is always active. We had a thread on it before. You get it wrong by 1 minute and the CAA man will bust you, big time. This is a NATS unit and they are maximally aggressive in MORs.
