Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Diverting? Canceling IFR or not.

Hello

We have all experienced this kind of problem in IFR (not to mention similar cases in VFR ON TOP!).

According to the end of the story, before MTL, when you observe that the Alps are covered, and even more so with the LFLP ATIS (04 / M02, OVC 4500), given the reliefs in the corner of LFHN and LFLP , you understand that an APP RNAV to LFLP is not possible (probable icing).

I guess the LFLB TAF (at the start) and the METAR were not encouraging either … and I’m not talking about approaching LSGG to continue VFR to LFLI …

So on the IFR plan it could be considered to return to the 1st field having an IFR approach compatible with the aircraft equipment and having a control or an AFIS (or at worst a favorable STAP?) , LFLY for example, and either wait for better days or try to get closer as possible VFR to land not too far.

The observation of a layer BKN to see the ground made you choose to go under the layer (it would be more secure, and comfortable for the passenger, the layer is SCT but you did not have a great choice!) and cancel the IFR to return to this VFR progression that I just mentioned that allowed you to approach the VOR LTP with the moving map.

From then on, with the time stopped, the progression towards the low mountain especially 45 mn of the sunset was compromised as you say very well and LFHS with the highway was almost the ideal solution!

When flying in IFR with IMC conditions, especially at destination and in winter, the often “administrative” obligation of an ADEG (FPL alternate aerodrome), for a private pilot, must be perceived as real (a bit like when we say that a “landing is a missed go-around”!).

I will say in conclusion and my poor IFR experience (on my Bonanza F33A, obviously not de-iced), knowing the IFR flights from the Paris region passing Geneve to make the LFLP Approach before continuing in VFR to the Megeve altiport (from Spring to Autumn), I will have done the same thing keeping in mind that turning back must always be possible as long as it is likely that the weather conditions that you went through a while ago still have to be correct.

Finally, an instructive flight bringing a good experience on both Meteorology (TAF and real observation) and on human factors (how far to not go towards its destination)!

Adls
LFPU, France

Great story and learning opportunity for us….btw I’m really impressed either with your copious note taking during flight or your fantastic memory skills! (As well as your English, if it is not your mother tongue!)

YPJT, United Arab Emirates

Thanks JuJu for your comments. I think it all depends on the lens you look at these things through. I don’t want to fall into the trap of IR vs non IR pilots as I think it is in a way irrelevant. Simply put, I would not have left the house without an IR given the info I had prior to leaving the house. (Taking the whole icing factor into account)
That being said, I had few hours when I started my IR (200) and now still have relatively few hours, as you can see from my handle (LFHNflightstudent) I consider myself to be the eternal student. I am not into flying for the risk taking, my former “occupation” as an ex professional sportsman, in what the millennial generation likes to call “extreme sports” these days which is a complete BS term on itself, has made me very well aware of my (limited) capabilities and at no times did I consider our flight to be unsafe. I don’t feel like I have anything to prove by killing myself or my loved ones – if there is one thing I have learned from some of the things you read around “get thereitis” is that “to quit while you are losing” is most likely a winning strategy. As for my misses she is a total badass who is happy to sort the taxi to get home when you cannot make it. To have had lunch on he beach in the sun when we were going for a hike in he snow the precious day was totally with it. Her words…

LFHN - Bellegarde - Vouvray France

I felt your story quite dramatic (hallettante in French).
Your decision making skills seem impressive. I would be proud of you if I was your IRI.
Having your wife onboard can make trings trickier too.
Well done !!

As a potential future IR student, I reckon I am far from this level of multi-factor, quickly changing, decision making
For sure, onboard weather like SiriusXM or ADL would have been great in a flight like this.

I heard some IR pilots saying : in winter, an IR is unusable because of icing. Is that true ?
Note : the same guys say “in summer, an IR is unusable because of CBs” . Maybe they are a little bit pessimistic

LFOU, France

lenthamen wrote:

VFR is a very valuable tool for the IR rated pilot. You didn’t mention which type of aircraft you were flying. I assume it is a Non-Deiced SEP?

Yes apologies should have mentioned that – PA24 non de-iced. With a FIKI aircraft I would have continued IFR to LFLP and landed there.

LFHN - Bellegarde - Vouvray France

My mother and I once experienced an airliner engine failure on takeoff due to bird ingestion, which happily didn’t affect the other engine! She still likes to fly and genuinely wishes I’d take her for motorcycle rides (in her mid-80s) But that said, I think Peter’s point is a very good one. Until non-pilot passengers have flown a great deal, they are often in bliss when nothing happens and in terror if anything unplanned occurs. Fear is such a funny thing, not rational but very real.

Peter wrote:

Especially with your wife present. Many wives or girlfriends never flew again after just one (1) scary event. After almost 10 years of flying, Justine stopped doing long trips with me after 1 flight on which nothing actually happened, where there was a lot of headwind and we were facing a possible landing at Lille, descending through some buildups.

My girlfriend has had an emergency landing at Gander with an airliner after a partial engine failure and she still flies commercial as well as with me. I’m curious to see how she will react after some intense flight, which we hadn’t had yet.

Hungriger Wolf (EDHF), Germany

There is a saying in English which I like to pervert into “best to quit while you are still losing” and IMHO you did exactly the right thing. You evaluated the options, continued to evaluate them, and then made a decision to cash them in.

Especially with your wife present. Many wives or girlfriends never flew again after just one (1) scary event. After almost 10 years of flying, Justine stopped doing long trips with me after 1 flight on which nothing actually happened, where there was a lot of headwind and we were facing a possible landing at Lille, descending through some buildups.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In my experience (VFR only) when you start trying different options to get around some weather, and those options start to fail, you usually end up having to make a diversion. You might keep trying to find a way, but more often than not when plan A fails, and you try plan b and it fails too, it’s rare that plan c or d works

EIWT Weston, Ireland

Sounds like you made the right decision and were on top of things.
Worst thing you can do is to continue into worsening weather and running out of options.

VFR is a very valuable tool for the IR rated pilot. You didn’t mention which type of aircraft you were flying. I assume it is a Non-Deiced SEP?
At this time of the year you are very limited because of icing risk. Especially with terrain around you, switching to VFR is a sensible option…

11 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top