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IFR route through prohibited airspace

10 Posts

There seems to be no check by Eurocontrol whether a route crosses any prohibited (or restricted) areas.

I.e. I can file the following which validates with no errors:
EHLE IVLUT/N0122A020 IFR DCT LOPIK DCT INKET INKET1R EHRD

The route takes me through EHP25 GND-A020 prohibited area (a royal palace).

Normally this won’t be a problem because ATC will keep you clear. But what if you get a radio failure after you got the route clearance?

If you get a clearance, you are cleared.

In this case, LVNL chose to not create a restriction in the Eurocontrol system that would prevent flying through that airspace. Most likely due to laziness. The Germans don’t do it in all cases either, saying that they can handle occasional route changes and the risk of somebody going through it and rather save the (20 minute) effort of adding the area to the system. If you lose radio communciation, for sure they see where you’re going and would inform the relevant parties to make sure you can proceed.

NATS do the best job maintaining restrictions in the Eurocontrol system.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In the US, a restricted area may be hot or cold and ATC has the authority to clear one through the restricted area. ATC does not have the authority to permit flight through a prohibited airspace.

KUZA, United States

This is an interesting resurrection @Peter. Seems like Germany isn’t the only country not always swnding this data to Eurocontrol. What’s your take away here then?

ELLX, Luxembourg

NCYankee wrote:

In the US, a restricted area may be hot or cold and ATC has the authority to clear one through the restricted area. ATC does not have the authority to permit flight through a prohibited airspace.

It is basically the same in Europe, except that the terms “hot” or “cold” are not used. We use “active” or “not active”.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

ATC has the ability to coordinate with other units

That is how a lot of flying works. You ask if you can have X and the controller makes a phone call, and gets back to you

Well, if he/she is too busy, or can’t be bothered, or is fed up with the military biting his head off. (common in France) then you won’t get anything.

ATC is also notam-aware so can use that information to authorise (or not) a flight.

If the airspace is permanently prohibited then you will never get it.

Re this topic (an old thread re-opened) is that the problem with the Eurocontrol system is that you can easily get routes validated through these airspaces even if restricted or whatever, because the country in question (and they all do it) has not supplied the data to Eurocontrol.

The other thread (linked above) is regarding an alleged illegality of merely filing a flight plan through such an airspace, which has to be simply nonsense.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

NCYankee wrote:

ATC does not have the authority to permit flight through a prohibited airspace.

That’s an interesting point. I’ve always wondered what the difference between P- and R-areas really is as there are lots of P-areas that you can fly through in some circumstances, e.g. on a particular instrument approach or if you are a government operator. The distinction you mention makes sense, but I’ve never seen any description of the difference between R- and P- areas except for the trivial one that in flight is “restricted” or “prohibited” – which it many cases is actually isn’t, but subject to restrictions. Is there some regulation or standard, ICAO or EASA, that clarifies this? (The FAA might clarify it, but that doesn’t help much in Europe.)

Sweden doesn’t have any P-areas at all, but several R-areas which can be be flown through only by getting permission well in advance of the flight.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 05 Feb 10:59
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

In France ATC can give permission to fly over a “P” area but only when the “P” area is designated as such. If you read the VFR Complimentaire you will see when it is possible. Eg air ambulence’s on clearance, state aircraft, IFR on route XYZ.
But my advice, rather than reading up on the different references, is to avoid them.

France

The difference between P and R in the US is in AIM (or maybe the FAR, one or the other anyway).

ATC can clear you through R – though they may choose not to. But only the “controlling agency” can give you a clearance through P, most likely because you’re associated with them in some way.

LFMD, France
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