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IFR/VFR Transition in Europe

Would any of our Italian or Austrian friends be willing to describe the process of joining IFR from a VFR airfield, and arriving from an IFR environment to a VFR airfield?

For example, are plans Z and Y, respectively, or can you file I?
Who gives you your clearance?
Is IFR permitted in Class G? With or without a clearance?
Do you need clearance into controlled airspace, or is the clearance passed before departure (if it is) enough?
What are the rules governing landing in IMC at a field without procedures?
Any other useful hints?

EGKB Biggin Hill

Have joined from an uncontrolled field near Rome and asked for join via Rome radar (Fiumicino). I filed a Z plan and remained OCAS but clearance was quite straightforward. Destination was LIML. Have also filed Y from Nice into Milano Bresso, Linate clear you to leave CAS via descent. (May add that you need quite good Italian to negotiate with Rome and the Bresso club to use Bresso in a turboprop)

Because of the low ceiling available OCAS flying in IMC in Class G in the largely mountainous terrain of Italy is only for the brave, or military with terrain following kit.

Last Edited by RobertL18C at 12 Jan 20:20
Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Austria
File Y/Z, take off, contact Wien Info on 124,4 „Callsign, Type, flight from – to, request to join ifr“

Wien Info will accommodate you or send you off to Approach/Departure/Radar if applicable.

always learning
LO__, Austria

@Snoopy, thank you.

Do you get a clearance from the Airfield FISO, or have to wait until you’re airborne?
Can you go into IMC before you get joining clearance?
Do you have to remain outside controlled airspace until you get the clearance?
Is IFR permissible in Class G?
Are there weather minima for departure and arrival?

EGKB Biggin Hill

In my limited experience of VFR in Italy (Albenga, Bolzano, some others) you are invited by ATC, increasingly firmly, to cancel IFR if heading to a VFR field. One can negotiate as to where one actually does it because, after all, ATC cannot cancel IFR for you (well, London Info can in the UK ).

Upon departure OCAS, I don’t know if there is anywhere in Europe – apart from the UK – where you can enter IMC before getting the IFR clearance. In most cases you cannot even enter CAS.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

In most cases you cannot even enter CAS.

But you can in Norway and Sweden, apparently.

So much for SERA!

EGKB Biggin Hill

Small airfields (private) only give you „take off own discretion“, no ground nor enroute clearances. If an airport has an IFR procedure like a SID they should be able to clear you by contacting an actual ATS unit and relaying your clearance for you, if they don’t have any ifr procedures (most smallet private fields) you do as mentioned: take off VFR (tower will say „cleared take off own discretion“) and remain VMC in uncontrolled airspace (Echo) until contacting either Wien Info on 124,4 or the ATC unit of a controlled airspace (mandatory for C, D and if flying under IFR also in E) you wish to enter. Request joining IFR – done!

VFR

IFR

For departure under vfr standard vfr mins apply, at controlled airfields special vfr is possible within their control zone (D).

Airspace G: yes ifr is ok

Which airports/areas in Austria/Italy will you pass?

Last Edited by Snoopy at 12 Jan 22:32
always learning
LO__, Austria

Peter wrote:

I don’t know if there is anywhere in Europe – apart from the UK – where you can enter IMC before getting the IFR clearance.

According to SERA and EASA rules, IMC/IFR is permitted in Class G without a clearance.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Snoopy wrote:

Which airports/areas in Austria/Italy will you pass?

I am building a database of European countries. The only “main” ones that were outstanding were Italy and Austria, though if anyone wants to help with:

  • Bosnia and Herzegovina
  • Bulgaria
  • Croatia
  • Czech Republic
  • Estonia
  • Finland
  • Hungary
  • Iceland
  • Kosovo
  • Latvia
  • Lithuania
  • Moldova
  • Montenegro
  • Portugal
  • Romania
  • Serbia
  • Slovakia
  • Slovenia
  • Spain
  • Turkey
  • Ukraine

I’d be delighted to hear from them!

EGKB Biggin Hill

Obviously you need a clearance to enter CAS so the Q is whether the local system enables you to get that before takeoff. In the UK you generally cannot get it (Oxford is one exception AFAIK) and Europe doesn’t have the US “clearance void” concept where you can get it with a phone call. In general you do get it soon enough but “soon enough” can be variable… a very old topic. I recall French weekend departures (St Yan LFLN) where I could not raise anyone on the radio until really damn very nearly too late. On another one I never got it and flew for 2 hours in “some sort of air” while nobody really cared (Greece)

Now, throw IMC into the pot and it can get interesting in terms of pilot workload and obstacle clearance matters, regardless of whether IFR in G is legal or not. Quite a number of fatal accidents of IR holders in this phase of flight.

The AIP links above will be dead at the next AIRAC cycle so I will now spend a bit of time localising them If I may ask it would have been better to post screenshots of the relevant text only. I hope I did it right.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
27 Posts
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