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EASA definition „Instruction“

Ok, but that’s not the same case as depicted above, where the PPL does meet all the all requirements for being PIC on that flight.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

What if the PPL meets all the legal requirements but is “not feeling too well”.

I had precisely that situation, in 2002, when I taxied into a pothole and got a prop strike, during conversion training in the brand new TB20. The FI said “I am glad I wasn’t in charge” and walked off. Later he said that I was legal to taxi so he / his school wasn’t liable. They never invoiced for his time

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

boscomantico wrote:

It only ever interests if there is an accident, or an violation. Take the case of an accident on a flight as construed above. Nothing has been noted in the jouney log before the flight. After the accident, the FI that sat RHS wants to get out of the liability. He will say, “LHS was PIC, I was merely a passenger”. In that case, the LHS Pilot will likely have a hard time arguing that it was instruction and that he was merely the DUAL pilot if before the flight did not need or seek any formal instruction whatsoever.

I think that’s the “cultural” difference right there. I can’t remember this as a real issue at all. Has it ever happened? (probably has, but I can’t think of any). It doesn’t really matter, because if it should happen, this is just an ordinary civil case. In a civil case, if two pilots are flying and one is PIC, the other is not immune. It doesn’t work like that, because i’s not a matter of right or wrong in the same sense as a criminal case. In a civil case, the question would be: “could the instructor have prevented it?” As an instructor in the RHS, of course he could. Sitting in the back, much harder

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

boscomantico wrote:

Well, if nothing happens, then nothing will ever happen

Sums the whole thing on logbook writing, only instructors will always have to keep records as things do come back 1 or 2 years later?

You can still have two instructors logging PIC & PUT while doing some “instructional patter therapy”

Last Edited by Ibra at 10 Jan 10:07
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Snoopy, if this is going to be an “instruction” and if the flight hours wanted to be loggable “dual” or “PUT” , I presume you are going to be PIC, and responsibility is on your shoulders. On the other hand, the other question is that can you give any instruction as freelance , not connected to an ATO? It is not legal in Turkey, the most of our civil aviation rules are derived from EASA rules, for better coordination.

Fly , Cycle and Run
LTBJ,LTFB, Turkey

So long as it is legal to give instruction, i.e. the instructor is qualified in accordance with PART FCL, then what is or isn’t instruction is entirely up to the Instructor on board who by virtue of being there as an instructor may log the flight as PIC and therefore make all decisions in relation to that flight. It matters not one iota if its instruction for a licence rating or simply to provide a bit of companionship for the student.

If the pilot is fully qualified and the “Instructor” not a qualified instructor, whilst he could still give the flying pilot instruction, he would have no legal capacity with regard to decision making and any attempt to take control would be unlawful interference. Such an instructor could not log his operating capacity as he has none.

AMC-FCL.050

(iii) the holder of an instructor certificate may log as PIC all flight time
during which he or she acts as an instructor in an aircraft;

On the other hand, the other question is that can you give any instruction as freelance , not connected to an ATO? It is not legal in Turkey, the most of our civil aviation rules are derived from EASA rules, for better coordination.

Under EASA all instruction for the issue or renewal of a licence or rating must be given at either an ATO or a DTO. Some instruction in instrument flying may be given outside an ATO or DTO along with any instruction that is not for the issue or renewal of a licence or rating including: the one hour with an instructor, any revalidation training; differences training; familiarisation training and FI renewal training.

On the other hand, the other question is that can you give any instruction as freelance , not connected to an ATO?

Yes, legal.

always learning
LO__, Austria

Can a freelance FI teach the syllabus of “ATO subjects” (PPL, IR, ME) outside an ATO assuming the training and hours do not count toward the issue of the rating?

Say an FI take a fresh student and do all his PPL exercises (except solo circuit/nav ?) before sending him to the ATO to log his 45h? Same for an IRI doing all CBIR training?

Last Edited by Ibra at 11 Jan 17:54
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

That’s a really good Q.

Obviously it is physically possible to train somebody (it can be called “mentoring”). Obviously the hours will not be loggable by the “student”. I did that with a couple of people, years ago.

Whether the FI can log it, I don’t know. It is not legal to freelance-instruct towards these things, so probably not.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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