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Why do you teach huge (B52-sized) circuits in the PPL?

From here – a new thread created on this frequent topic

Peter wrote:

That would be normal for the schools in this area. The circuits which are taught are so big one cannot see a GA plane from one corner of the circuit to the opposite corner – about 5nm.

But why on earth are people taught to do it that way… Unless there are special circumstances like an unusually high circuit a mile final is plenty.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

One of my pet hates at my field are people who fly a “prolonged” downwind, which then forces everyone else to follow them or go around. I don’t see why this is taught either. At my club it isn’t in any case.

Maybe to give students time to relax in the circuit? Really curious as well.

Rwy20 wrote:

One of my pet hates at my field are people who fly a “prolonged” downwind,…

In my experience, this usually is the result of some kind of “chain reaction”: The first one who flies a prolonged downwind usually has a reason for that: Either a much slower airplane ahead or another one just about to line up or a slow student who needs those extra few seconds to get his aircraft set-up. And if the first one starts to extend downwind, the next one needs to extend even more and so on.

Here we usually don’t have this problem because in most places the published traffic circuits have to be observed striclty, mostly because of noise issues with the neighbouring towns and houses. But this leads to even more difficult situations because speed is the only way to achieve spacing between the various aircraft. It can be quite challenging to fly a circuit behind someone who can fly at one third of your stall speed…. I vastly prefer B52 patterns over that.

Last Edited by what_next at 04 Jan 16:12
EDDS - Stuttgart

The main reason may be noise abatement, the larger circuit spreading and diluting the ‘love’/noise.

This gives an opportunity to post this classic by Bertorelli.



Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

I agree – noise abatement seems to determine the size of the circuit, especially in the London area, although the Denham circuit is reasonably small and standard shape because of noise abatement. I exaggerate a little, but some other airfields are a pain as you slalom around every habitation whilst trying to set up to land.

Bertorelli’s great…

Question: why does the RAF (perhaps other air forces too) fly oval circuits and GA flies rectangular (subject to noise abatement) circuits?

CKN
EGLM (White Waltham)

CKN wrote:

…why does the RAF (perhaps other air forces too) fly …

Honestly, I never cared the least about what airforces do or don’t. They fly to kill, I fly to survive (so to say). We are on the exact opposite ends of our profession.

EDDS - Stuttgart

So rectangular patterns are surviving patterns and ovals are killing patterns ?

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

So rectangular patterns are surviving patterns and ovals are killing patterns ?

I have no idea. But over the last 30 years or so I have simply developed an allergic reaction towards this constant " this is how we/they do/did it in the airforce " talk. I can’t hear it any more. They only cook with water in the airforce, same as we do.

EDDS - Stuttgart

Prolonged downwind is very often used by ATC in ZRH for spacing. Very effective indeed.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

If you have a tower with a radar, that changes everything. But here I think it was more about uncontrolled fields.

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