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Instructor liable just for being present in the aircraft?

Mooney_Driver wrote:

According to that, responsibility for a flight will be attributed to the highest experienced pilot on board

According to what exactly?
That does seem crazy. How is experience even defined?
If I am sitting next to a friend who has less hours than me, then I’d need to worry about me potentially being responsible for his mistakes?

Timothy wrote:

When I am flown as passenger, I make it excruciatingly clear that that is my only role, and will not engage in any decision making or suggestions. If I am sitting in the front, I deliberately roll my seat right back on the runner and refuse any suggestion that I should check my brakes.

That’s all very well. But if there is an accident and both of you are dead, there is no record of the conversation, and the accident investigators (or insurers arguing in court) might take a different view. You could always leave a note behind, signed by both parties, agreeing such, but I doubt anyone actually does.

EIWT Weston, Ireland

In my case, there is usually an email trail that makes the relationship obvious.

EGKB Biggin Hill

It could be a Swiss-only thing.

It is indeed bizzare because it would completely screw the possibility of anybody but a novice pilot flying as a passenger.

However MD’s post #10 mentions two substantially different scenarios: that of an FI as a passenger, and that of an “experienced pilot” as a passenger.

The former is obviously more risky (to the FI) because, post-crash, and especially if the FI gets killed, it is very easy for a survivor to claim it was a training flight and this opens a claim against the FI or against his school. And people will do dirty stuff like this (often, not always, but it depends on how much money is to be had by an easy act of lying). When I had a prop strike in 2002, with an FI in the RHS (diff training), the FI immediately (even before opening the door) distanced himself from any suggestion it was a training flight. This would direct any insurance company payout recovery action (it was £20k) against him personally which almost nobody will bother with (for a “mere” 20k) due to the hassle of suing a jointly held estate etc etc. And sure enough the insurer just paid out and left it alone.

The latter is just self evidently bizzare and should be impossible, because it makes a mockery of carrying GA-related passengers, but you never know…

I would like to see a reference to the law, which someone could translate.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

At least in France, I am pretty sure there is no specific law. But still, a judge let himself be convinced that an instructor in the back seat can be held responsible if anything goes wrong on a flight. This will most likely be based on very broad laws and legal principles, and not on specific aviation law or any EASA FCL provisions. Most judges are no pilots or have any inclination to get into the fine details of aviation related law.

What was being claimed? Damages against the FI for personal injury? Was the FI alive?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I have no idea what this case is, but say you have a gopro video of an instructor actively trying to influence the flight from the backseat, for instance by giving strong advice that ends up leading to the accident (possibly just by the fact that it confused / made the pilot lose concentration), it’s conceivable that damages be sought.

Responsibility attributed to highest experienced pilot? That needs clarification. In our Jodel DR1050 Group, I have the second highest total solo hours, and the highest by far on DR1050 aircraft, but am only a basic PPL. The Instructor/Examiner has a few hundred hours total more than me, but less than 1/10th of my DR1050 hours. The CPL/IR/Instructor has fewer hours.
As the aircraft can accommodate all three of us, and the FAA was quoted as holding an instructor in the rear seat responsible, I can hypothesize a lawyer’s dream situation.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Timothy wrote:

When I am flown as passenger, I make it excruciatingly clear that that is my only role, and will not engage in any decision making or suggestions. If I am sitting in the front, I deliberately roll my seat right back on the runner and refuse any suggestion that I should check my brakes.

What do you do if something dangerous is about to happen?

I remember one case when I was in the back seat. The PIC — who had more hours than I but much less currency on type and was unfamiliar with the individual aircraft — was flying a poorly planned approach and in the turn to final the bank angle kept increasing while the airspeed kept decreasing. I told him in no uncertain terms to increase speed.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I once pushed the control column forward a bit (and said it) when a friend tried a low go around in a C152 with full flaps and high / increasing angle of attack. He wasn’t very current (and relatively new to type) and thanked me for doing so, but that was more of a survival reflex.

This summer when the other pilot was clearly behind the nav / busting airspace but there wasn’t direct security threat I gave one or two hints and then sat quietly and let things happen, to not distract further

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