How do you define EASA cross country time?

Why not? If I train with a student for instance EDXE OSN HMM MYN EDXE without landing, what else should it be?

Just don’t make such a fuzz about it. The definition is crystal clear. And if you ask many questions, you’ll get many answers.

I did my PPL between 2014 and 2015 in Luxembourg. The practice definitely was to consider anything out of the CTR (which for a VFR flight is functionally equivalent to anything out of the circuit) as a cross-country flight. Except for the one mandatory 150nmi “triangle” solo flight, all the solo cross-country time of students is done within the country, taking off and landing at ELLX. We were told it had to be that way because solo students are not allowed in other countries, except (by special arrangement with the CAAs of the bordering states) for the one 150nmi flight. I wonder if with EASA/SERA/… it is still true that students from one EASA state are not allowed solo into another state.

(The country has another aerodrome, but the school/club considers it too difficult for solo students.)

On a related note, I heard Cyprus has a derogation from EASA, so that they don’t have to send PPL students over the sea to Syria / Lebanon Turkey / Israel / Egypt for their 150nmi solo. Anybody knows if Malta sends their PPL students over the sea to… I imagine Italy? (Lampedusa? Sicily?)

Peter wrote:

I am astonished one could log “cross country” on an A-to-A flight.

On the other hand, I am astonished that the flight of the Rutan Voyager was not considered a cross country flight :-)

lionel wrote:

On a related note, I heard Cyprus has a derogation from EASA, so that they don’t have to send PPL students over the sea to Syria / Lebanon Turkey / Israel / Egypt for their 150nmi solo. Anybody knows if Malta sends their PPL students over the sea to… I imagine Italy? (Lampedusa? Sicily?)

It don’t know for Cyprus.

What I know is that French pilots trained on the Reunion island (Indian Ocean) have a restricted license because there are ony 2 airfields on the island. So they can’t do their triangular solo nav. I think they can’t fly in metropolitan France because of that.

MedEwok wrote:

I thought cross country was anything leaving the vicinity of the airfield, one definition is “can’t observe the traffic in the circuit anymore”.

That would be my understanding as well.

For the PPL requirement they spell it out a bit more:

at least 1 cross-country flight of at least 270 km (150 NM), during which full stop landings at 2 aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure shall be made.

Because the basic definition of cross-country does not include this verbatim statement, I think it is safe to assume that it can be to and from the same aerodrome as long as you leave the vicinity of the aerodrome.

On a related note, I emailed my local FTO about starting IR training and he said once you’ve got your 50 hours cross country you’re good to start. Is there a requirement for the 50 hours to be done before the training can start? My interpretation of Part FCL is that the requirement only applies when making the application for the rating to be added to my license:

Applicants for an IR shall:

(b) have completed at least 50 hours of cross-country flight time as PIC in aeroplanes, TMGs,
helicopters or airships, of which at least 10 or, in the case of airships, 20 hours shall be in the relevant
aircraft category;

Is there a requirement for the 50 hours to be done before the training can start?

No. Your interpretation is absolutely correct.

tschnell wrote:

No. Your interpretation is absolutely correct.

Thanks. I got back to him and he agreed. I don’t think PPL/SEIR comes up too often here. Most students are integrated or modular ATPL.

Peter wrote:

I am astonished one could log “cross country” on an A-to-A flight.

When I was on V-bombers we took of from A flew a 1500 mile Nav Ex and landed back at A after a few circuits. If you went to war you were not expected to land away!
The EASA definition is quite clear:

“Cross-country” means a flight between a point of departure and a point of arrival following a preplanned
route, using standard navigation procedures.

The emphasis being on “pre-planned” and using “standard navigational procedures”.