LeSving wrote:
Many commercial airports for scheduled flight are in TIA/TIZ. This is G airspace, and scheduled flight almost always fly IFR.
For the benefit of non-scandinavians: TIA/TIZ are also RMZ.
Peter wrote:
IFR/VFR is indeed undetectable by an outsider
There were some discussions about that at ENOP. ENOP is a glider and skydiving place. It’s G up to 13k feet. Gliders fly very close to clouds (legally or not 
) The skydiving plane sometimes fly IFR (in IMC) on the way up and down. No problems with that, but then the skydiving plane pilot decided to fly a bit IFR on his own just for fun well outside the usual places. The glider pilots didn’t like that, thinking that the skydiving plane could pop out of the cloud from anywhere. I kind of agree, sort of, but…
However, what they didn’t think about was helicopters. Helicopters have IFR routes, low level all over the place in G mostly, and one route goes directly over ENOP. I have been called up from time to time on the radio by helicopters. They are asking about where the gliders are, so they wont fly into one.
The helicopter routes in that area:
The basic principle in Norway is to always talk on the radio, blind or with local ATC or Polaris (changed name to Polaris from Norway Control some months ago, still difficult to remember ), because you can always expect IFR in G. The practice varies however. People from far out, like ENOP, not used to ATC, usually don’t care, or have no clue whatsoever. People who are used to fly in controlled airspace, also treat G as it was a kind of “controlled” airspace. Many commercial airports for scheduled flight are in TIA/TIZ. This is G airspace, and scheduled flight almost always fly IFR.
One cannot deal with this stuff with one-liner soundbites
A lot depends on whether a post is made to contribute knowledge to the community, or made to just show that somebody is “clever” while incrementing one’s post count (I am not referring to anyone currently posting).
In UK Class G, as you drill holes in clouds, IFR/VFR is indeed undetectable by an outsider. But the overall situation, with clearances (in flight, or departure ones), flight plans, their distribution / non-distribution, ATC services, etc, is very much not just in one’s mind.
Airborne_Again wrote:
So, indeed, IFR is a state of mind.
Actually, in a deeper sense, IFR is a state of mind, as you would approach an IFR flight very differently compared to a VFR flight.
In the UK you have to select squawk 2000 (unless instructed otherwise) under IFR.
Alpha_Floor wrote:
So… in the UK whether one is IFR or VFR, can de facto become a state of mind?
That’s true everywhere if you can fly IFR in class G without a flight plan. Same thing in Sweden, actually. So, indeed, IFR is a state of mind.
Peter wrote:
Not really.
Sorry for bumping this up again but just curious about this.
In the UK as far as I know one can be flying WITH NO FLIGHT PLAN SUBMITTED, in Class G, either under IFR or VFR.
One can also change from IFR to VFR rules as he pleases. Intermittently as he flies through clouds, if reduced ad absurdum.
So… in the UK whether one is IFR or VFR, can de facto become a state of mind?
Provided all other conditions are met: aircraft is IFR equipped, pilot has an IR/IMC etc.
IFR is a state of mind.
Not really.
will I get in any trouble if I use the old Swedish definition as my instructor insists on that?
Get him to email you that advice and that will cover your 6 o’clock for ever, because you are entitled to assume he is an expert on the regulations
Dimme wrote:
I guess if you are flying on a IFR flight plan, then you are flying IFR, regardless of whether it is IMC or VMC. It is about the rules, not the conditions.
That’s why I mentioned the UK. There is no such rule. IFR is a state of mind.
I guess if you are flying on a IFR flight plan, then you are flying IFR, regardless of whether it is IMC or VMC. It is about the rules, not the conditions. But let’s not deviate from my question until I get an answer 
