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iPad Pro?

Noe wrote:

that doesn’t really qualify as overheating

Noted

jgmusic
North Weald, United Kingdom

Noe wrote:

but that doesn’t really qualify as overheating

Yes, I concur my tablet battery drain quickly in cold IMC but goes to max as soon as I plug a charger !
That can be solved by external batteries, but a solar ones don’t work

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

There is indeed a problem at low temperatures. I don’t know where different devices set the limits but for example when I did several ski trips this last winter I would consistently find that once the phone (which I carried in a waist bag, with a sandwich etc) cooled down to something around 0C, it suddenly dropped its battery capacity from say 95% to something like 10%. And if you did basically anything with it then, at 10% capacity, e.g. take a few photos, it would shut down due to the battery being exhausted. Samsung S7.

This is a protection mechanism for the battery, whose energy storage capacity drops dramatically at low temps.

I was able to solve the problem (not being able to take photos was a right PITA) by connecting the phone to a charger (one of the €30 “power brick” things) and sure enough it would charge it back up from 10% to 100%. The funny thing was that the charger also completely lost track of how much energy it had stored, showing say 80% when it was actually empty.

This is all fine for “consumer usage” i.e. people messing around doing selfies for instagram / fb etc etc but one cannot pretend it is OK for a cockpit, which could easily be below zero C when you get in on a winter morning. Those fan cooled mounts are highly effective but they will equally cool it down to ambient really well.

which indicates that people using tablet moving maps properly don’t infringe. The same is not true of IFR Navigators such as the GNS

Sure, because the IFR boxes have useless maps of airspace.

However you can still bust CAS (as I well know ) simply by flying close enough to it and then talking to a passenger for a couple of minutes. I even did a CAS bust while having a complicated conversation with the ATC unit which owned it. This was some years ago and nothing happened; I suspect they saw the cause and didn’t report it (wasn’t the LTMA; that goes to the CAA 100% I believe)

So yes a big tablet is useful for ad hoc unplanned flights, but if you pre-plan your VFR flights properly and stick to the plan then you can fly perfectly well with an IFR box, because more than likely you planned the whole route on IFR waypoints. You will also be flying a plog with altitudes – gosh what an old fashioned concept

I think to use these large tablets you must be flying a big plane. I could just about use an Ipad Mini (or a Samsung T705 sized thing) on a leg strap, with a kneeboard strapped to the other leg – like loco above.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Hopefully I don’t regret writing about that anectodic situation: to be clear, I don’t think “cold shutdowns” should concern anyone in a cockpit. (Unless you are trying to make up reasons not to use a tablet)

I’ve had an old iPhone (6 I think) that was very frustrating with cold temperatures (skiing), however when swapped for a new one for a warranty issue (unrelated), problem went away.
I’ve done now 2 skiing seasons seasons with an X and and Xs (lost the X, I wouldn’t otherwise replace as often), and never had any issue. I normally keep my phone on an outer pocket of the pants (fairly prone to windchill) for easy access.

Perhaps when the batteries get older, they get especially sensitive.

Why I wouldn’t worry in a cockpit:
0) I’ve never had any issue in cockpit, iPhone or iPad, with departures at at or close to zero. I’ve never read about one either!
1) there is no windchill, so cooling will be much slower
2) it’s unlikely the cockpit stays at that low of a temperature because
a) you will have heating on
b) even if you don’t, you will be heating the cockpit

Noe wrote:

I don’t think “cold shutdowns” should concern anyone in a cockpit

It is not an issue, just one need to plug a charger at 20% not at 2% ?

But you may take this back for gliding in wave at -20C with some top clouds around
All sudden everything goes off: TXB, RT, Tablet, LX NAV, foot fingers…

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I think to use these large tablets you must be flying a big plane.

Not an issue on Diamonds (which have a centre stick). I only keep the iPad on my lap, using the iPad pen to write on scratchboards. I keep paper and a pen available on a side pocket in case there’s any issue.

That said, depends on what you mean by big.
I’m about to head out to fly on this
, and an iPad is defintely too big to fit on the lap (it can fit on the floor between the knees). I use a forearm armband with my phone instead

Noe wrote:

That said, depends on what you mean by big. I’m about to head out to fly on this

I am more scared losing my teeth doing cold IMC in that than tablet battery

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

cooled down to something around 0C, it suddenly dropped its battery capacity from say 95% to something like 10%. And if you did basically anything with it then, at 10% capacity, e.g. take a few photos, it would shut down due to the battery being exhausted. Samsung S7.
This is a protection mechanism for the battery, whose energy storage capacity drops dramatically at low temps.

It’s strange that this happens only when your device is not new. Usually after year or two in service battery starts to act like this from my experience. Running on clod mornings (minus 10 or so) I sometimes start with 100% and it drops to 20% in less than 30 min.

Noe wrote:

I only keep the iPad on my lap

I have problem keeping iPad on my lap and trying to read the approach plates because I don’t like looking down every few seconds to cross-check values on plate with actual data on instruments. And it becomes even more complicated when approaching minima in IMC. That’s why I use suction cup with adjustable arm for attaching iPad to canopy at pilot side (DA42) and making its screen parallel to G1000.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

In the PA28, the floor air-vents provide a quite high air flow. In the summer, the RHS vent is pointed upwards straight at my iPad Mini 4 in its RAM mount attached to the wind-shield’s side. Did not have the slightest issue last summer, even in full sun the iPad was not even hot to the touch.
Until then I had the iPad Mini most often on my right knee, with a flippable cover to take notes. This configuration I find keeps my eyes too much inside the plane rather than looking out. But the iPad in the mount covers a piece of the view to the right, and I would not want it any bigger.
So neither are optimal for VFR flying. The IR is only a few weeks away now (with paper plates on the yoke), I’ll see how I re-arrange my cockpit then.

ESMK, Sweden

I thought it would be appropriate to revive this discussion because Apple finally introduced my dream iPad.
The combination of Garmin Pilot (or equivalent), Windy, and a few more amazing apps create a powerful setup that runs circles around certified avionics in price/utility. Don’t get me wrong I am not implying that certified avionics should be discarded. All my primaries are (must be) certified.
But instead of paying a fortune for a second GTN xxx I have a basic nav/com and an iPad.
The new iPad Pro addresses the only remaining issue: screen brightness.
On paper, this baby even beats the luminosity of a dedicated avionics box by 60%, removing the last area of mild dissatisfaction.
My two successive iPad Pros (12.9 in) have performed flawlessly over the last 6 years. I therefore feel safe recommending this solution, in combination with the Flightstream 210 or 510. The Flightstream devices create a realtime link to the certified avionics, unleashing the power of the Garmin Pilot app. The wireless connection has been quite robust, although I would trade it for a cable in a heartbeat.

Here is the minimalistic mounting solution I came up with for this new format.
FAA regulations require that the device be pilot-removable without any tools. This is fulfilled by means of a slot-it process followed by a magnetic lock using the iPad’s inbuilt magnet and a matching point on the frame. Cooling is via a 3mm clearance on the back and – in my aircraft – an array of 20 mm holes in the underlying panel.

It am happy to share a 3D printable file (STL format) or, if you’d like to edit it, the Fusion 360 3D file. Please note that you may only use these if you agree that
- I accept no responsibility whatsoever for functionality and what you do with my design and
- that in fact these are meant for display in your (enter free text here) room and may not be used in relationship to any moving apparatus from your E-bike to personal rocket.

LSGG, LFEY, Switzerland
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