Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

IR holders: Would you ever go back to VFR-only and, if so, what would change?

To Timothy’s list I would add:

8. The pleasure of contact flying, in countries where it is permitted.
9. Aerial sight-seeing – even parts of Lincolnshire and northern France are more interesting than cloud tops.

In large parts of northern Britain, with Class G up to FL195, there is ample opportunity for cloud flying but little incentive to go beyond the much maligned IR(R). Flying to somewhere like Prestwick, ATC always seem happy to give an impromptu IFR clearance into their zone.

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom

I will not renew/revalidate my IR at my own expense, so whenever I don’t get paid for flying any longer (hopefully not before reaching the age limit) my IR will vanish into thin air. With the pension I can expect to get, an occasional flight in a light single is all I will be able to afford. And even if I will continue to instruct I will probably limit this to VFR. Instructing IFR is very boring and a waste of lifetime (unless one desperately needs the money) and the older one gets, the more precious lifetime becomes.

For traveling, there are the airlines… My sister just booked a round trip from Berlin to San Francisco for herself and her family with some Icelandic airline. 400 Euros per person. Those 1200 Euros won’t even get me to the other end of Germany and back in a decent IFR tourer at our level of charter and extra costs.

Last Edited by what_next at 22 Jan 14:39
EDDS - Stuttgart

Not an IR holder as never wanted one so maybe I should keep quite
Anything that I enjoy about VFR flying most of you hate. I enjoy the airspace research, the preflight work and finding the route that will take me to where I want to go and most off all I enjoy to go where I want as I want.

Ben wrote:

I enjoy the airspace research, the preflight work and finding the route that will take me to where I want to go …

IFR flight planning is no different from that when done by hand!

… and most off all I enjoy to go where I want as I want.

IFR flying is no different from VFR flying in that respect either.

EDDS - Stuttgart

WhiskeyPapa wrote:

I tend to route straight through the “mess of controlled and restricted airspace” (except in obvious cases that need to be avoided, like huge international airports) in flight plannning and almost always get cleared through on VFR flight plans.

I think it depends where the mess is.

In France there is rarely a problem. There seems to be a little Gallic shrug from the other end of the RT, as if to say “well, it’s there, but no-one is really very bothered, I don’t really know why you are asking.”

In Germany or the UK, however, I fear that the slightest transgression is going to be pounced on from on high.

But these stereotypes are not universally applicable. For example, the French get very protective about ZITs and charge huge fines for penetration, whereas often military restricted areas in Germany and UK turn out to be wide open.

I think that the big advantage of IFR is that you don’t have to know or care.

And, @what_next , I love teaching IFR, far more than VFR. Thank goodness we don’t all want to do the same thing!

Last Edited by Timothy at 22 Jan 18:33
EGKB Biggin Hill

Timothy wrote:

Thank goodness we don’t all want to do the same thing!

Guess so… Today I did an IFR training flight in perfect weather. That of course is a nice thing to do. The student knows how to fly the aircraft, so there is no need for constant monitoring, most of the time one flies straight and level anyway. Lot of time to enjoy the view. But instructing IFR in IMC is different. Nothing to see but clouds from inside, again a student who knows how to fly the airplane, so nothing to do for the instructor other than sitting there and counting the minutes…

Timothy wrote:

In Germany or the UK, however,…

Interesting. Around here (Germany) we are scared stiff of French regulations and fines. And ramp inspections in France of course. I have been flying for quite some time, but one has to pay me triple extra for flying VFR in France. And even then I would find an excuse for not doing it. Whereas in Germany, I can fly VFR in a straight line from my homebase to Hamburg, Berlin, Prage or Zürich at anything from 3000ft to FL95 without talking to anybody or having to worry about infringing airspaces.

EDDS - Stuttgart

I always file IFR these days. I love to fly in the “system” and the interaction with ATC. Also, it puts separation in their court, so I don’t have to scan the horizon like a madman constantly. I really like that. Only time I fly VFR these days is if I need to do a quick hop to Chino to get some cheap fuel, or the wait for release is too long. The I’ll launch and pick it up later.

AdamFrisch wrote:

Also, it puts separation in their court, so I don’t have to scan the horizon like a madman constantly.

I hope that was a typo. In VMC in Classes D and E you need to provide your own separation from other (VFR) traffic. In the US that means anywhere except in Class B or C terminal area airspace or above 18,000 ft. If that traffic is squawking Mode C the controller may see it and may point it out to you, or not.

If I flew a pressurized twin engined turboprop I would expect to fly IFR all the time too, based on wanting to be in Class A airspace above 18,000 feet for fuel savings. I’d do that as a job if somebody paid me enough

Last Edited by Silvaire at 22 Jan 20:07

but one has to pay me triple extra for flying VFR in France.

I confess to possibly being an innocent abroad, but I have flown in France (am not counting flying ‘in the system’ on airways for this comment) VFR for over twenty years, and have found the GA community in France, be it Flying Clubs, mechanics or ATC very hospitable and helpful – obviously you need to show the correct sensitivity to the sacred lunch break.

Am I missing something? The same by the way goes for Germany, where the GA community is welcoming.

On IR instructing, the students are needing a first time pass to get an airline assessment so there usually is a high motivation on their part, which is not always the case in PPL instructing. I get satisfaction on how many students do well in their airline assessment and land an FO role. For most airlines the sim ride is the main hurdle, and getting them to standard within the constraints of the typical 45 hours is an interesting challenge.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Silvaire, they offer full deconfliction service by transponding aircraft in the US, as far as I understand. They’ll even warn about primary targets. They don’t know if I’m in or out of clouds. In the UK, not so much.

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 22 Jan 20:04
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top