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Is any European ATC implementing fusion between ADS-B OUT and SSR (Mode S)?

Is any country in Europe implementing fusion between SSR and ADS-B, as the US is doing – mentioned by NCyankee here ?

Presumably this can work only with certified (SIL=3) ADS-B OUT aircraft.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I don’t know if I am answering the right question, but London Control has all the ES data available on the controller’s screen and all aircraft above a certain weight have to provide the full ES suite, certainly in RVSM airspace and possibly everywhere.

If this is what you mean, I do have all the details somewhere and can post them.

Or have I missed the point.

EGKB Biggin Hill

See the link in 1st post. It refers to a post by @NCyankee. It is the merging of Mode C/S data with ADS-B data, for a uniform presentation to ATC.

I don’t know if any of the parameters (e.g. the autopilot preset altitude) are transmitted on ADS-B OUT.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I’d expect the merging to be standard, if ADS-B is supported at all. Else, the controller will have imminent collision alerts all the time!

Yes, the autopilot preset altitude (or the altitude bug on the PFD) is sent out on ADS-B OUT, or maybe on S mode interrogation? Anyway, the controller (brand new radar system) has it, and detected a wrongly set altitude bug (by 100ft).

ELLX

Any software which would allow other planes, with ADSB-IN, to see all that extra info?

EGTF, LFTF

That would be ADS-C, no ?

EBST, Belgium

The ADS-B OUT data described in NCyankee’s referenced 2018 post is programmed at installation, and the integrity of that data is checked when you do the test flight and request the FAA performance report for that flight by automated email. As described, the OUT data is stuff like own ship ADS-B IN capability, aircraft category (i.e. small) and physical size, and does not appear to me to include anything like autopilot preset altitude.

The US ADS-B ground station apparently combines available sources of data (C, S, UAT and 1090) and includes them all in ADS-B IN data, as received for instance by my Stratus 2 box. This means that I’m seeing all transponder equipped aircraft on the screen, perhaps slightly delayed, although without tail number in some cases (tail number is of no use to me anyway). The screen used to display in the plane is incidentally the same one I’m using to make this post. I have no idea what ATC can see but it’s relatively unimportant to me as I’m only talking to them briefly at the beginning and end of my typical flights.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 22 Nov 15:46

I don’t think ADS-B OUT emits any of that data.

You can achieve a certified ADS-B OUT installation with a GTX335 etc etc fed from a standalone WAAS GPS (e.g. a GTX345 ) which has no connection to any of your avionics.

The stuff with the autopilot preset altitude etc is radiated via Enhanced Mode S, which AFAIK is not mandatory below 5700kg/250kt TAS/18 seats.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

You can achieve a certified ADS-B OUT installation with a GTX335 etc etc fed from a standalone WAAS GPS (e.g. a GTX345 ) which has no connection to any of your avionics

What are avionics? My GTX 335 has an internal WAAS GPS and plug in encoder – I like to minimize the installed box count on the aircraft. I did have to add a GPS antenna, but was able to remove the old encoder box, thereby adding nothing to the box count.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 22 Nov 16:11

Peter wrote:

I don’t think ADS-B OUT emits any of that data.

Are you saying that 1090ES squitter is not included in the definition of ADS-B Out?

I am really confused by this. Surely, there are several “layers” of ADS-B, which can include more or less information, from the 1090ES array:

…but it’s all ADS-B, no?

EGKB Biggin Hill
29 Posts
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