Marcel wrote:
You don’t need German LP if having English LP, but you need the German radio license. How you would get it without speaking German is a mystery however.Airborne_Again wrote:
It was implied in the question put by @etn that he flew D-reg aircraft.
Do you need a German radio license if you don’t fly D-reg? I can’t see how the LBA could enforce that as the radio in a non-D-reg aircraft is not a German radio station.
boscomantico wrote:
Well, you need an equivalent radio license. And yes it is a territorial thing. (Radio station licenses are a different story, of course),
Yes, according to the German rules you need a radio licence allowing to do german radio communication, irrespective of the aircraft reg. as boscomantico wrote.
An equivalent licence would actually just be a Swiss or Austrian radio licence authorizing German language radio.
How LBA would chase on that: good question. Maybe just after an accident or serious event.
Wow, thanks for all the answers! I wouldn’t have imagined my question would raise such a debate.
It was implied in the question put by @etn that he flew D-reg aircraft.
My aircraft is indeed D-reg. (And it is based in EDQN, it was nice to see the airfield in that video posted above :))
After all those years living here, I do have “the knowledge” for German proficiency. My point is, I was just not sure the BZF is still sufficient to prove it if I need to. I will need to re-read all the entire thread tomorrow morning with a fresh head.
Well, you need an equivalent radio license.
The BZF should be that radio license, if I am not mistaken?
boscomantico wrote:
No. Once again: the German radio certificates and LP are two completely different things.The phrase mentioned above speaks only about radio privileges.
LP is about being able to legally fly.
Back in 2012 when LP were being introduced, I contacted the LBA and asked them about getting a LP for German and was told – please fill out the attached declaration which states (bla bla bla) – you know the one, where you confirm you’ve spent your formative years in a country where German is the native language.
I wrote back advising that although my german is pretty impressive for a Brit, I don’t qualify to sign such a declaration. At the time, no LP for German was available hence I asked what do I do now?
The response, from the LBA, was that:
as I had taken the BZF I had obviously proven my competency in speaking German hence as I held a BZF this would suffice, no LP was necessary as well as I would be required to speak in either English or the language of the country I was flying in AND already had a English LP on my licence.
Since then I’ve been ramp checked by BR at a couple of German only airfields, they’ve not said a word about the English LP noted in my Licence.
Indeed, Language Proficiency and the Radio Commications Licence are two different things.
LP:
Provided you have a certain number of years in a German speaking school, you can self-declare LP6. Else you do the LP test…..
VFR Radio Licence:
BZF2 is the German RT licence for conducting German VFR radio communication
BZF1: Same, but for German and English radio. You get to the BZF1 once you did BZF2, as a additional exam
BZF E: is the German RT licence for conducting English VFR radio communication WITHOUT privileges for German radio.
Just to clarify: You could do German radio comms without German LP, provided you have English LP, but you need BZF2 (or BZF1, which includes BZF2). Hence my comment, if someone is able to take the BZF2 exam, one should also be able to take at least German LP4 (although not required).
That all seems very complicated. In France when you did your PPL or TT (when I did mine), the examiner signed off with “apte pour radiotelephonie en langue français”. At the time to fly outside French territories I would have had to take an English language exam “QRRI” IIRC
The professionals took a QRI.
At the time to fly outside French territories I would have had to take an English language exam
Just few caveats as it’s not strictly true, let’s take Switzerland, you can fly with F-reg without ELP there 
This topic is more bonker than people think of: most people in France, tells you they need FCL.055 (B/D) to fly cross borders because they think they need ICAO privilege but they miss the fact that their EASA aircraft is already well covered by EASA laws…for instance, you can fly to Switzerland on French LAPL and speak French without English LP, if you have French LP (remember on LAPL you are flying sub-ICAO as per FCL.055)
Local pilots or regulator may not like it, probably it’s not safe or good airmanship, however, we are talking about legalities (it falls under “suck it up and move on, it’s EASA laws”)
The list of airfields where you can talk French
Sion AIP AD,
You didn’t read my post properly. EASA hadn’t even been thought of when the QRRI was in force. The rule was outside of the hexagon and Dom Toms you needed a QRI or QRRI.
This was even before JAR whichwas about the time when both QRI and QRRI were scrapped in favour of your own honour that you could speak English.
Ibra wrote:
There is the other way around, I can’t how see why BZF has any use in non D-reg aircraft radio?Because a radio certificate is something separate in Germany from normal pilot licenses. It is a completely separate paper. A BZF confirms your radio skills on German frequencies (inside the lateral borders of the Federal Republik of Germany), which are supervised by the Bundesnetzagentur (Federal Network Agency), which is not the LBA or any other CAA!
BZF1: Same, but for German and English radio. You get to the BZF1 once you did BZF2, as a additional examYou can obtain BZF1 directly upon initial exam. No need to get BZF2 first.
Please note, that a BZF2 is only valid inside Germany. E.g. If you want to talk German in Austria (or Switzerland), a German pilot still requires a BZF1.You can talk French in Switzerland on private VFR flights in airspace & airfields, it’s in AIPOnly within the French speaking area of Switzerland. You may also use German in the German speaking part, and Italian in the Italian speaking part. Of course, there is no phraseology for Rhaeto-Romance, otherwise, it would have been included for Samedan. Note that Swissgerman pilots in practice never use German on the radios (they even don’t practice it upon LAPL/PPL training), so a German pilot flying into Switzerland using German radio calls, might not be understood by Swissgermans.
Because a radio certificate is something separate in Germany from normal pilot licenses. It is a completely separate paper. A BZF confirms your radio skills on German frequencies (inside the lateral borders of the Federal Republik of Germany), which are supervised by the Bundesnetzagentur (Federal Network Agency), which is not the LBA or any other CAA! To make it simple: No matter where you’re from, or which pilot license you have, in order to speak legally German inside Germany on German frequencies, you need a BZF. Again, this is a requirement of the German Federal Network Agency. Yes, they have indeed no authority about a N-reg aircraft, but this is also not a D-reg thing. It has something to do with the legal usage of a certain radio frequency. As soon as you push the PTT-button and speak German inside Germany, you transmit a German-spoken signal onto a German radio frequency, therefore the Federal Network Agency requires you to have a BZF.
I never heard of “*German frequency*”, can you explain details what that means? I now about “German radio station in D-reg aircraft or radio station in German airfield” but I never heard of “German frequencies”
Using your logic, one can’t operate any aircraft radio in UK without FRTOL issued by Ofcom as it’s separated from CAA PPL, that would be silly
https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviation/pilot-licences/flight-radio-telephony-operator-licence/
If it’s true that would very sad and very awful sorry, guys one can operate radio in Germany without BZF on ICAO papers (including myself), on EASA aircraft & papers, it’s even legally binding
This a bit like saying ICAO PPL can’t fly in Switzerland because he lacks “mandatory mountain training” (or USA because he does not have “mandatory night rating” in US PPL), that would a huge bullshit
Another one, gliding in UK is done without CAA, EASA, ICAO licences, the only requirement to fly gliders in controlled airspace & airfields is to hold standalone UK FRTOL from OFCOM, that bizzarly lead some people in gliding scene to wrongly think everybody need to get the standalone FRTOL to operate gliders (even if they hold ICAO, EASA, CAA papers), I would not be surprised to hear similar stuff somewhere else, I think the world and sky are way bigger than that…
