I plan to go forward with this, together with an avionics upgrade, later this summer. There are a lot of little flown planes out there that require both Mode S and 8.33. What do you think happens to them? Will the owners pony up? Or dump ythem on the market? Or let them rot?
WhiskeyPapa wrote:
What do you think happens to them?
I would say that depends entirely on the value of these aircaft. An upgrade to mode S und 8.33MHz can be had for around 5,000 currency units of your choice. I can’t imagine anybody dumping an aeroplane worth in excess of 50,000 of those currency units because of an investment in the order of 10%. Looks different of course for aircraft worth 20,000 or less. They will either be used solely for daylight VFR out of controlled airspace, sold to somewhere it does not matter or scrapped.
They are all very welcome in Ireland where 8.33Khz spacing, Mode S and ELT’s are not required for VFR flying.
WilliamF wrote:
…in Ireland where 8.33Khz spacing, Mode S and ELT’s are not required for VFR flying.
They will not be required in Germany for a long time either as long as you remain within airspace G (which goes from ground to 2500ft over most of the territory) and stay away from radio mandatory zones and transponder mandatory zones. Which is what many weekend flyers do anyway.
Same as in the UK, and probably close to everywhere else. In Class G here, you can fly non-radio, so no need to have a radio at all, or a transponder, or an ELT. And as w-n says, it’s all that many weekend flyers do anyway.
The Q is whether these items, if installed (i.e. a 25kHz radio, Mode C TXP) will have to be removed.
Pretty obviously the Mode C TXP can stay (which is good because everybody with a Mode C should always have it ON on every flight!). Whether the single 25kHz radio can stay, I don’t know. It would be unbelievably stupid if it had to be removed to comply with 8.33…
what_next wrote:
I would say that depends entirely on the value of these aircaft. An upgrade to mode S und 8.33MHz can be had for around 5,000 currency units of your choice. I can’t imagine anybody dumping an aeroplane worth in excess of 50,000 of those currency units because of an investment in the order of 10%. Looks different of course for aircraft worth 20,000 or less.
I think it do matter. 5000 currency units (Euro) is not enough for mode S and 8.33. It will be more like 10k. For experimentals and microlights it is 3-5k, but then you have to mount everything yourself.
What this mean is that a 50k aircraft suddenly decreases it’s value with 10k, which is 20%. A 20k aircraft decreases it’s value with 50%. There is another aspect also. Upgrading the aircraft to mode S and 8.33 will not necessarily increase the value. People looking for a modern avionics in an old aircraft will rather purchase cheap and upgrade themselves to their own specs and liking.
For the most part, I’m not taking about 50K aircraft. Those will be upgraded. I’m speaking about those in the 20-30 range (or less). But WilliamF and the others have probably answered the question: they’ll stay outside of controlled airspace and fly from farm to farm, or one grass strip to another, which is also a lot of fun.
WhiskeyPapa wrote:
For the most part, I’m not taking about 50K aircraft. Those will be upgraded. I’m speaking about those in the 20-30 range (or less). But WilliamF and the others have probably answered the question: they’ll stay outside of controlled airspace and fly from farm to farm, or one grass strip to another, which is also a lot of fun.
If that happens, it’s goodbye certified GA for sure for 90% of PPL pilots. All new microlights come with mode S and 8.33, with a token increase in sales price, or by default. Add a few 100, and they come with ADS-B/FLARM also. This year, they will increase MTOW to 550 kg or thereabout if EASA get it as they want.
Norway has no plans for mandatory mode S. 8.33 is postponed until 2025, and who knows what will happen then, probably nothing. It will probably continue to be as it is today, all new aircraft must (or should) have mode S and 8.33, but no change necessary for old planes.
If that happens, it’s goodbye certified GA for sure for 90% of PPL pilots.
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater there….
LeSving is constantly phantasising about an alleged death of certified GA. There os no substance to these deathwishes whatsoever. Truth os that many planes will change owners and allow people to buy a decent aircraft who otherwise wouldn’t be able to do so. Some planes will get realistic prices and with 1 to 5 k€ will be updated with 833 and perhaps ModeS and bring fun to new pilots. So all will be good. You just have to do things and not talk about thinking doing things.
