J Wagner ILS to minimums. :-) (and how much of the approach light system and the runway needs to be visible at minima)

I downloaded it immediately, of course

I will leave it to @NCyankee for the definitive version but I think he saw what the FAA calls the “runway environment” at about 50ft Also the forward vis is somewhat short…

Fortunately for him, he hand flew (?) the ILS (well, the bit of it that matters most, which is the bit that can kill you) amazingly accurately. I don’t know anybody who can hand fly an ILS down to what is basically zero-zero, although there are many stories about it. One “colourful” FI who used to prop up the bar at Shoreham many years ago said that the French post office pilots were authorised for zero-zero ILS ops, and all hand flown.

Both ILSs at KOAK look like this:

Interesting video in other respects e.g. no way would I ever go for the remotely controlled intercom. He loses the whole GTN750 for every time he changes the radio frequency.

It is always the pilot’s decision if he/she sees the runway or not, but to be honest, I find it hard to believe that he did not bust it big time…
I have a similar synthetic vision horizon on one of the airplanes that I fly and it is sometimes scary how accurate it is, you can maintain your centreline during takeoff with it. I would definitely trust it all the way down to a controlled crash if that was my last option.

Actually, he may have just about stayed legal(ish). He was flying to 28R (@Peter, you’ve got the wrong plate in your post), which has a DA of 207 ft (200DH) with RVR of 2400, which, if you look at the notes, can be reduced to 1800 if you are using an FD, AP or HUD. I don’t have time to watch the entire video now, so don’t know what the reported RVR was. He saw the runway environment at about 200 ft, in fact his front view camera saw it earlier. Impressive, one way or another….

Runway Environment

RWY28 or RWY30? That’s also interesting:

For ILS/LOC RWY 28R (which he was assigned):

“RWY28 RVR 1200” around 15:50.

From the video, it does not appear to me that he had a half a mile of flight visibility. The MALSR has 200 foot spacing between the light segments, with 5 flashing sequencers covering 1000 feet and the cross bar lights covering the remaining 1400 feet to the threshold. I did see one of the sequence flash lights, but the first cross row was the outermost or about 1400 feet before the threshold. The video only showed two segments at time and I would estimate flight visibility to be no more than 1000 feet, maybe as little as 500 feet. At the DH of 200 feet, the threshold is still just over 3800 feet from the threshold, so at 1/2 SM visibility, one should be able to see 2600 feet forward of that point, meaning that one should be able to see the 5 sequenced flashing lights and the first two cross bars at the DH and pickup the rest of the lights to the threshold in a matter of seconds.

I agree, looks like around 1000ft. While in theory the pilot is expected to go around if flight visibility is below the approach mjnimum, in practice he is not really expected to calculate visibility from what he sees ang go around if vis is too low, but he judges if the “runway environment” is in sight, which includes the approch light system (at least down to 100 ft, below which more is required). FAR 91.175.

He was certainly pushing it here, too! No threshold at 100ft..

boscomantico wrote:

But I am confused.. for Part 91 in the US, is the vis/RVR minimum indicated on the approach plate really not a hard limit? He keeps repeating on the “look and see” thing..

It is a hard limit, but since it is flight visibility, it is based on the pilot’s view, not the RVR or ground reported visibility. In the case of certificated operations, the pilot may not commence the approach unless the reported visibility is at or above minimums, but this does not apply to part 91 operations. It can be zero-zero and under part 91, one can commence the approach, but they must have the required flight visibility at and below the DH to avoid a missed approach.

The visiblity at the DH is very subjctive,(nobody can controls you in a single pilot enviroment.) however there are gates/ points beyond you may continue or abandon the approach if the WX becomes worse then your minima. This app. was “successful” , but from the leagal aspect hmmm. In the sim for me this is a fail, and not talking about the VIS below the layer.
If you are CATI, no rwy or rwy enviroment in sight at DA/DH, you have to go around. At 207 was not, he passed 200, 1..2..3. and then had the lights.