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Led lighting (merged)

@UdoR I just stumbled on this thread as I am currently researching LED position lights. I hope my answer does not come too late… (after more than a year)

I know of the JPC Aviation ones: https://www.jpcaviation.com/web/images/produits/pdf/6491311_ICD.pdf

They have the same form factor as the ones you mention and should be easy to install. They do not have a strobe feature, though.

Last year I replaced the landing light of my Robin by JPC LEDs when the light bulb died. I received good technical advice and customer support from them. Now I am thinking about replacing the position lights (and possibly the strobe) too, but have not yet decided on a specific model. I tend toward the JPC.

Last Edited by etn at 20 Jul 18:34
etn
EDQN, Germany

I’ll hijack this thread because I’m looking into exchanging my lights with LEDs.

I came across these double-feature position/strobe lights, which are just replacement bulbs for old aircrafts. So you just exchange the bulb with these and not only do you have led position lighting but also strobe feature.

Sadly, they are not certified and it looks as if it was not yet possible to install these if you want to fly by night or IFR.

Does anybody know something similar but certified? To me the most attractive point is the ease of installation. No cabling. Nothing to change. And strobe is added.

Germany

However, yours are water-cooled

Aviation lights run really hot. They are normally shielded from the airflow, by a front lens/cover (like the two TB forward-facing lights) or by the clear housing.

Also your lamps probably have a short o-ring distance. Perhaps 5cm diameter so this is easy to compress, with a properly designed screw-in fitting. The standard GA lights aren’t like a “handheld torch”. The wingtip ones would have a long seal and the case is partly plastic.

Sure it could be done, with a diecast design…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I don’t think anybody tries to achieve a waterproof unit. It’s possible (with o-rings etc) but difficult, and if somebody does the installation in a humid environment then you will get permanent condensation inside.

Waterproof unit shouldn’t be a problem. In diving we used to use HID and now use LED lights that are quite bright and are able to penetrate pretty murky waters. I’ve been using both types to depth more than 100 meters, so waterproof aviation application should be trivial comparing to this. Price range for high quality diving light-head has always been around €600.

The problem can be heating in aviation application which is not the problem under water.

Last Edited by Emir at 01 Nov 13:59
LDZA LDVA, Croatia

I am not so sure they are sealed. Look at them closely.

Practically all LED lamps contain a switching power supply. This is because an LED is a constant-current device which emits light in proportion to the current (with a considerable nonlinearity) and the traditional way of converting a DC voltage into a “constant” current – a resistor – is no good for high power lamps; basically anything around the 1 watt area or bigger. So they contain a PCB with some electronics. And how do you seal that? There are basically three ways to seal something:

  • an o-ring seal (which needs very stiff mating parts, to achieve good and long term stable o-ring compression; a big challenge with moulded parts) but this can’t be used on things which get hot, but all aircraft LED lamps do run hot
  • a potted (encapsulated) assembly; manufacturers hate that because it needs encapsulant handling/mixing/precise controlled injection equipment, and a careful choice of materials
  • an overmoulded assembly; the Chinese use that heavily but it is a challenge to overmould a whole PCB because the molten plastic is hotter than the solder melting point, so you have to spend time putting tape around the PCB, etc

Hence most people don’t bother and put a little drain hole in the bottom. That is how everything is done in GA. Drain holes in lights, drain holes in the elevator, drain holes everywhere.

And the switching power supply, running at some tens of kHz (chosen to be above human hearing, because the ferrite components make noise via magnetostriction) to ~1MHz in newer designs, inevitably radiates, which is how you got this

Worked just fine until turning the radio on. They made this buzzing and annoying sound

There is conducted radiation and there is radiated radiation (magnetic or electric field; usually both). There are EU (EN) specs on this (you do a specially rigged lab test, or you self-certify via various routes) but they are meaningless for whether it will be ok in actual applications. You could make a power supply whose emissions are way below any compliance curve and then you install it, set the radio to 123.45 or whatever (which may not happen until a year later when you visit some new airport) and find the radio is unusable. Been there done that

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I don’t think anybody tries to achieve a waterproof unit.

New LEDs on new aircraft are just tiny sealed units with no replaceable parts. They are not designed as “bulbs” being installed inside a frame and glass. Rather they are designed to be flush and invisible (unless turning them on). On the Alphatrainer for instance, people always ask why there are no position lights. There are. They are almost flush with the wing tip, and of the same color as the wing (white). Turning them on, and it’s rather obvious they are there both position and strobe.

Main lights (landing, taxi) is another matter of course. There has to be some area and preferably some lenses to get good light.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

I don’t think anybody tries to achieve a waterproof unit. It’s possible (with o-rings etc) but difficult, and if somebody does the installation in a humid environment then you will get permanent condensation inside.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

products are basically no-name chinese junk

Or, as often in the aircraft industry, branded and overpriced American junk Ages ago in the air force I remember the position lights on the wing tip of the F-16. The aircraft were then brand new, but the normal procedure was to tap these lights with the flash light to make them work. This was long before LED lights, just ordinary light bulbs inside colored glass. It was all due to the design. They were designed to be watertight, but wasn’t. Probably developed and tested in the Arizona desert The contact points corroded. Tapping them worked for a year or two, then the whole thing had to be replaced. It was two of them on each wing tip, positioned vertically on the top and bottom of the tip. Often the bottom ones were filled with water. They had a tendency to work better after all, as the water was collected away from the contact points of the bulb.

Then there are these LED replacement “bulbs”, also for position lights and similar stuff. We installed these on the Cub. Worked just fine until turning the radio on. They made this buzzing and annoying sound. Probably some no brand Chinese junk, but works just fine now with another no brand Chinese no so junky LED “bulbs”.

LED lightning in general has seen a tremendous increase quality and function (ability to produce good light) the last 10 years.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

From here

It doesn’t surprise me that somebody found some “landing light” LEDs to be useless. In the retail lighting business the majority of LED products are basically no-name chinese junk. At the simplest level, if you have a load of 60W GU5.3 halogen lamps in your kitchen, and you replace them with LED versions which claim to be equivalent to 60W halogens, the room is much less bright…

Some years ago I installed these and they are great but could you use them to land on an unlit runway? No; you would probably bend the plane. Well, they do produce perhaps just enough light to see a spot on the tarmac at the very end of the landing phase. But they are brighter than the original GE lamps!

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Then take your money elsewhere.

I would speculate he probably cannot, due to the nature of the “relationship” between the owner and the only available maint company. This is pretty normal; the only way to avoid it is to operate off grid like I do

I’m sure it’s not an intentional concession

That’s very funny

Of course, never look a gift horse in the mouth, but I would still prefer to not get something totally dirt cheap. Same comment with cigar lighter USB chargers, etc.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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