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Liability on a fly-in organiser

I spoke to a guy yesterday who has had some involvement in this…

Is there a liability on an organiser who does all of the following

  • fixes a fly-in date and location
  • supplies enroute and terminal charts
  • generates routings and notam briefings
  • block-books hotel rooms
  • charges nontrivial money for the above e.g. €200-300

This thread is also relevant to some extent. Most of the fly-ins organised by other pilot groups, especially type-specific groups, fall more or less firmly into all the above list.

In fact one organiser (a major N European GA country) told me that if he didn’t do all of this, half the people would not come, on a trip which involves flying to another country.

I am no lawyer but I would think that the possession of a PPL implies competence in preflight and the execution of a flight. But what if the information supplied by the organiser is defective e.g. a notam briefing is supplied but omits something and the pilot gets a €5k fine?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Without knowing any laws on that, I would suggest that the pilot remains responsible for the accuracy of the information. Especially if the organizer prints that out somewhere together with the information itself.

LSZH, LSZF, Switzerland

Around here: Liable. Sure is it the pilot’s duty and resposibility to get a weather and NOTAM briefing for his route. But he is not required to get this briefing directly from the official source. He can employ a service provider who gets this information for him (which is what most commercial operators do, unless they are big enough to have their own in-house department for that). A commercial operator will be required to audit his provider in some way before relying on the information provided by him. But this can not be expected from a private person and every court in this country will follow that reasoning.

(BTW: It is the same with charts. A pilot is not required to obtain his charts from the official source (AIP), he can purchase them from a supplier (e.g. Jeppesen) instead. If that supplier’s charts are faulty, he can be held liable. There are several cases in which Jeppesen chart mistakes have been found to be a contributing factor in the accident. Therefore Jeppesen are insured against liablility claims up to 1 billion Dollars.)

Last Edited by what_next at 31 Jul 11:01
EDDS - Stuttgart

Anyone who publishes data that may be used in the planning and or execution of flight, without a prominent disclaimer, is clean daft.

“WARNING! UNOFFICIAL DATA ! CONFIRM FROM OFFICIAL SOURCES FOR PLANNING AND EXECUTING YOUR FLIGHT!”

Then again, if accepting/requesting money for services offered one had better get liability insurance – anybody paying has a right to certain expectations, and they can always go wrong.

Come to think of it: the amount collected may be quite relevant. 10 or 20 quid may be considered a compensation for cost incurred, especially if the organiser is a not-for-profit organisation; but 200-300 quid would raise a suspicion (at least) that the organiser is working out of a commercial background, in this country such a person or organisation would risk becoming subject to VAT and income tax.

Last Edited by at 31 Jul 11:29
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

In fact this one tickled my phantasy. Just imagine one were to organise a fly-in, perhaps type-related,

  • on a major European airport, perhaps Prague Ruzyne for just one example, or Sabadell with El Prat or Reus as an IFR diversion
  • make a deal with the (mandatory) handling companies, say 20%
  • perhaps make a deal with the airport itself for 10% on the landing fee
  • book participants on luxury resorts at least 40 kms off so they need a taxi – at least 10% on the resort’s invoice, more with increasing volume
  • more deals with the taxi operators – another 10%
  • offer a sight-seeing trip of the city (charter coach, get coach operator to suggest itinerary, read comments from any tourist guide)
  • include a grand dinner, perhaps with some local celebrity attending (some cost for the celebrity but again xx % from restaurant)

Now if only 10 planes turn up, carrying 15 people or so, how much money could one make with how little effort?

However, one obviously ought to aim for people with more money than brains…

Last Edited by at 31 Jul 11:50
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

without a prominent disclaimer

That would not work for a personal injury scenario.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Perhaps, though I think there might well be differences between countries, and their laws and their legal practice.
But at any rate, personal injury could never be claimed further than the pilot: how could an administrative error lead to physical damage?
The disclaimer would be cover against a pilot busting airspace or disregarding some notam.

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

There are local regulations for air shows etc. I doubt that a fli-in will fit in there. A fly in is business as usual IMO.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

what_next wrote:

Therefore Jeppesen are insured against liablility claims up to 1 billion Dollars.)

So THAT’S why the charts are so expensive!

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

the possession of a PPL implies competence in preflight and the execution of a flight

most of PPLs are able to a local flight but the longer you go, the smaller percentage you get. And going to a different country? even lower….I know many PPLs who´s range is limited to 50 NM only….

LKKU, LKTB
34 Posts
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