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Longer window for editing

I think one reason is that if you are a native English speaker and post with grammar errors etc, people just assume that you’re negligent. On the other hand, if English is your second or third language and you do the same, people may think that your English is insufficient.

German was always a difficult language, with its datives and accusatives and what not - the Germans had ceased to be strict about them even when I was at college.

I think the German language suffers from not being a "world language". I had four years with German in school, but unlike English, I didn't get to practice so it disappeared rather quickly.

But I remember that back then one didn't have to think about whether a pronoun was accusative or dative. It came automatically.

I used to refresh it once every now and then when I was younger, but after I passed 40 I let it go, sort of. It was like flying. If you do it once a year, well you know…

As a native English speaker from the colonies (Australia) but having lived in the UK on and off for 17 years, I would say English grammar is generally very poor as it is spoken in the UK compared to Australia when compared on a socio-economic like-for-like basis...as is spelling and the written form to a lesser extent. In fact I would say that the standard of English from the non-native English speakers in this forum is far superior to most Brits....but even so there are some grammatical and spelling errors in the previous posts!

The bottom line is surely that the intent of the message is unambiguous within the bounds of our natural error tolerance, and sometimes misuse of grammar or made up words can actually improve the quality of the communication!

EDIT: Bloody iPad spelling corrections!

YPJT, United Arab Emirates

What a fascinating topic this has become :)

Gloucester UK (EGBJ)

A bit late to the party here so despite my own quite strong interest in language, as the technical architect of this forum, I am going to drag the discussion briefly (or not!) back to the original topic. As background, as well as creating the software that this forum uses, my company runs some other online forums, including a very large one which features in the UK media concerning things like trolling, bullying etc more than any other bar Facebook and Twitter. In the past we did the technology for PPRuNe too, so we're no strangers to aviation forums.

The downside to a longer edit time is that it makes it possible, in an in-depth discussion, to go back and modify what was said. This at best can make things confusing and at worse just adds to overly heated and otherwise non-constructive debate. And whilst most people "just wouldn't do that", the time when it's most likely to happen is when it's most damaging: during a heated debate. It's true that we show a "last edited" indication on the post, but we don't, in common with most forums, show the changed content.

What I would rather is that any change of view, factual corrections etc. are posted afresh, in the same way they would be if you were conducting the dialogue by email, by writing letters or even in a verbal conversation. That way the entire conversation is irrefutable and can make sense to anybody reading it, either a moderator, a participant or a passer-by.

My personal preference would be to offer no editing window whatsoever and certainly that's what happens on the largest forum we operate (5m+ users). Actually I quite like the way Google Mail allows you to undo a send of an email for about 10 seconds (it doesn't actually "un-send" it so much as it doesn't really send until a 10 second pause has passed), just in case you hit the Submit/Send button when you didn't mean to. Something similar would be good on the forum if the edit window was otherwise non-existent.

I love the quality of the writing on this forum and it is indeed impressive given the multitude of non-native English speaking users. My personal view is that if you care enough about the way you're writing is seen to want to go back and fix a spelling mistake then you probably care enough to take your time to check it before you post. Clearly mistakes can still get made and slip through whatever net you might use, but I think most readers are generous enough to overlook the occasional error of an otherwise self-evidently well constructed posting. And if the error makes a material difference (imagine I'd mistyped and said 5+ users above instead of 5m+) then you make a new post correcting yourself. The integrity of the discussion is maintained, face is saved and everybody is discussing on a level playing-field. Second-thoughts, or changes of opinion are absolutely catered for by this procedure.

Talking more broadly about language, I am not keen on the knocking of the modern way or the suggestion that people are somehow dumbing down. The Internet is a relatively new means of communication and things like Twitter, Facebook, email, forum postings and so on are evolving their own styles. This is no different from when communications that were done by messenger, or morse code, or a telegram. Abbreviations, assumptions and other shorthands were prevalent in those, just as "LOL" is today. I think forum postings, and more so on other forums, are more akin to the spoken word in a conversation between friends. That being said, when discussing matters with any degree of depth or intricacy, a certain level of precision in language is definitely preferable. A poorly written post can be really hard to understand! In summary, I suppose, if a poster wants me to understand what they've written (either because they've chosen to provide me some information, or because they want me to provide them some) then I care about how they write, but otherwise, each to their own. As is hopefully self-evident, I choose to write using a fairly traditional style, but if someone wants to write in "text speak", use poor grammar, have bad spelling or write in Mandarin that's fine by me; whether I understand what they're saying is another matter!

Administrator
EGTR / London, United Kingdom

I think you need an edit window. Unlike some forums we are often writing on technical subjects and I know I like to occasionally expand or clarify something I have said. Or remove typos/mistakes.

I think you have to trust people not to alter content after it is referred to by a subsequent poster. I have not found the current edit window to be a problem.

Interesting that even among the UK residents here, only a small portion are actually British!

EGTK Oxford

Unlike some forums we are often writing on technical subjects and I know I like to occasionally expand or clarify something I have said

But why not do so by posting a new post, as you just did? If you'd gone back to your earlier post and edited to add this comment (for example, that your view is in part a function of your reasonable assertion that we are writing on technical subjects) I would never have seen it, because I've read the thread to this point and so only read the new posts.

I think you have to trust people not to alter content after it is referred to by a subsequent poster. I have not found the current edit window to be a problem.

Increasing the length of the edit window increases the likelihood of it being a problem in my experience.

Administrator
EGTR / London, United Kingdom

Increasing the length of the edit window increases the likelihood of it being a problem in my experience.

David you missed that I said I think the current window is fine.

EGTK Oxford

David you missed that I said I think the current window is fine.

Actually I didn't, but I realise what I wrote wasn't very clear. Now imagine I go back and change my post to make it clearer, then your comment just looks peculiar!

I was more using your comment as an introduction to my view with regard to the original post asking for it it to be longer whilst picking up on your point that "it's not been a problem here": that it would be a bigger problem if the window were longer.

Administrator
EGTR / London, United Kingdom

David, although this is no big deal for me I would argue that

1) Quoting of posts makes it impossible to change them without being "caught"

My personal preference would be to offer no editing window whatsoever and certainly that's what happens on the largest forum we operate (5m+ users).

You could edit the above post and write a different personal preference but everybody would know what you wrote initially due to the quote in this post.

2) The edit window of EuroGA is fact shorter than most other boards I know of (although I admit that I don't know a lot).

I agree with the principle of not being able to change the meaning of a previous post....however I try hard to get my posts right before submitting them....but most of the time I use an iPad to post and often I notice a silly auto-correct after I press Submit...even if I preview... So I like the opportunity to correct....I would say 30 minutes should be ample....a longer period (much more than two hours) increases the risk that someone may materially change their post - for potentially misleading purposes...although my assessment of current posters is that this risk is small....so if there is a vote, I say leave it as it is!

YPJT, United Arab Emirates
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