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Looking for an old UK CAA VFR chart (UK post CAS infringement procedure)

I dont think that imediately telling you “standby, remain clear of controlled airspace” on first contact is great ATC. Neither is dumping you the second you leave controlled airspace. There are undoubtedly some things the UK does well, but ATC/ATS isnt one of them as a VFR pilot, and its irrelavent if the controllers themselves are “good” or “bad” if the service you get is poor and disjointed.

Alpha_Floor wrote:

UK ATS OCAS – is bloody terrible, one of the worst (if not the worst) in Europe, in my opinion.
UK ATC CAS – is excellent, one of the best (if not the best) in Europe, in my opinion.

I’m pleased you made the ATC/ATS distinction!

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Alpha_Floor wrote:

UK ATS OCAS – is bloody terrible, one of the worst (if not the worst) in Europe, in my opinion.
UK ATC CAS – is excellent, one of the best (if not the best) in Europe, in my opinion.

And it’s not the fault of the controllers or the people actually providing the service over the radio. It’s about how the whole system is set up.

Well, the problem is that for the majority of the UK pilots UK ATS CAS are almost never used, or used to get “unable due to controller workload”.
And the UK ATS OCAS is not so great, although if all you need a QNH, like with basic service, INFO is OK.
As you see, for the majority of pilots that fly mostly VFR, there is no good side of UK ATS visible at all.
Therefore for the majority of pilots the fact “UK ATSOs are great” is not, well, fact, quite the opposite. Sadly or not.

EGTR

172driver wrote:

yet another example of the oh so wonderful UK ATC.

I know what you meant here and fully agree, but just wanted to add that one can’t just speak of “UK ATC/ATS” in general like that without specifying CAS (inside controlled airspace) or OCAS (outside controlled airspace).

UK ATS OCAS – is bloody terrible, one of the worst (if not the worst) in Europe, in my opinion.
UK ATC CAS – is excellent, one of the best (if not the best) in Europe, in my opinion.

And it’s not the fault of the controllers or the people actually providing the service over the radio. It’s about how the whole system is set up.

Last Edited by Alpha_Floor at 30 Mar 17:10
EDDW, Germany

I’ve also had to call up London Info to get a flight plan activated when departing VFR from somewhere that doesn’t have that capability. Farnborough Radar consider the task beneath them.

Also used to use them crossing the channel on the basis that it was a good idea to be talking to someone, anyone, if at all possible. However less so since I learned that Bournemouth will happily work you until you reach Jersey coverage, and Western Radar is also an option. It irritates me how when heading south Solent Radar want to dump you as soon as you coast out “Freecall London Info…” but if you’re a bit further west Bournemouth will happily keep you until Jersey.

172driver wrote:

Seems to be yet another example of the oh so wonderful UK ATC.

The controllers themselves are (for the most part) extremely good. The structure, funding and operational policies are terrible.

Last Edited by Graham at 30 Mar 16:17
EGLM & EGTN

Peter wrote:

Well, that is true, but I’d suggest that by the time London INFO called you up, you will have already busted.

Yes, but that was my point – at least they know how to contact you so you don’t hog Heathrow departures on 23-Dec! :)

Peter wrote:

Also much of the radio chat on London INFO is irrelevant; you could be flying near Brighton and you hear calls to traffic 200nm away.

That is true! Made me recheck QNH settings a few times on my QXC flight – it was way off until I realised that it was for someone in the north…

EGTR

Peter wrote:

That’s correct; no obligation on ATC to warn of a CAS bust. I think that is true for VFR traffic everywhere, not just the UK

Errrr….no. ATC certainly warn you in the US, even in crazy busy airspace like SoCal. Same in continental Europe, at least in the countries I have flown in. Seems to be yet another example of the oh so wonderful UK ATC.

Peter wrote:

Well, that is true, but I’d suggest that by the time London INFO called you up, you will have already busted

London Info have reminded me about CAS on my current vector with a speed that suggests either they have sight of radar data or are really fast with a paper chart and a plotter or have very good familiarity with the area in question.

I wouldn’t trust that for airspace separation though, but they will remind you about CAS if they have time.

Andreas IOM

With the very quiet covid skies I must admit I’ve got used to not speaking to a ground service on the radio.

As we all know, Basic service in the UK is widely varied, can be useful, can be a total waste of time.

Well, that is true, but I’d suggest that by the time London INFO called you up, you will have already busted. They aren’t allowed to tell you they can see you on radar, or say anything which might suggest they see you; they have to hand you over to a radar unit (e.g. Farnborough) for instructions on which way to turn. Way too late… and the system will be noting the CAIT software warning and filling in the MOR.

London Info is OK for a “listening watch” in case of a mayday call but in much of the UK there are radar units within radio range which are obviously a better frequency to have set.

Also much of the radio chat on London INFO is irrelevant; you could be flying near Brighton and you hear calls to traffic 200nm away.

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Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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