We’re getting a GFC500 with three servos for our PA28, and therefore I know that type specific mounting brackets are included in the installation kit.
As of today, the parts sum up to about 10,5k€ incl. VAT.
Note that we already have dual G5s and a GAD29 installed.
CharlieRomeo wrote:
As of today, the parts sum up to about 10,5k€ incl. VAT.
That would work out to about $12k without VAT. Peter’s figure would be $13k. I guess that’s Garmin’s list price which is always higher than what you would actually pay through an installer.
@Peter, I have an EHSI and a G5 above it as you mentioned above.
With my current setup (Stec 60-2 AP with altitude selector) would it make sense to continue upgrading it with a GPSS convertor to feed the Sandel EHSI or switch to a GFC500?
Or maybe wait for an easier replacement solution for the existing Stec 60-2 AP?
To be honest, if you have a working plane, just leave it like it is 
GPSS doesn’t actually give you anything practical. You get more precise turns but they aren’t needed.
When I install a WAAS/EGNOS navigator I will feed the ARINC429 roll steering signals into the SN3500 and use the roll steering converter feature inside that to feed the KFC225 autopilot with analog deviations.
AlexTB20 wrote:
With my current setup (Stec 60-2 AP with altitude selector) would it make sense to continue upgrading it with a GPSS convertor to feed the Sandel EHSI or switch to a GFC500?Or maybe wait for an easier replacement solution for the existing Stec 60-2 AP?
Of course the GFC500 is a massive upgrade and most probably the way out of the S-Tec stuff. The question is, how happy are you with your 60-2. If it does what it should properly and correctly, then a GPSS upgrade would certainly be a much less costly variant to get this lovely feature, I certainly would not like to be without it. (I have the 55X which has it inbuilt. Actually GPSS is the one bit where the 55x works really well, so I expect the 60-2 would too. I am much less happy with the capture and following of analogue signals such as LOC and VOR.
If you are unhappy with the Stec, then I suppose the GFC 500 opens a new world. What I would fancy in that installation is the IAS mode and hopefully much more stable wind correction mechanisms as opposed to the S-Tec.
I’d have to say that this is a mighty fine panel you got there in your TB20!
Peter wrote:
GPSS doesn’t actually give you anything practical. You get more precise turns but they aren’t needed.
I suppose you don’t have GPSS? Actually, does your GPS support it? Otherwise I can’t really understand your statement. Personally I think GPSS is a total world apart from the standard deviation modes.
For me, it makes the difference from a old style system where you followed GPS signals either with heading as pilots used to on the Caravelle or DC9’s with their hand GPS’s mounted with velcro strips on top of the glareshield or use of CDI mode with intercept headings thrown in between to a present day system which follows a route in the navigator by itself, be it a VFR route or a SID/STAR e.t.c without any AP input throughout the route. Usually on VFR trips, we call up GPSS mode somewhere enroute to the first VRP outbound and switch the AP off or onto HDG mode after the last inbound one. IFR, GPSS is basically used from gear up to the intercept to the ILS or beyond that if you are on a LNAV or LPV approach.
I’d never want a setup without it again. Be it a legacy AP with an Aspen (which has GPSS to HDG built in) or better an AP which has it natively. If I had neither, say in a Stec 30, 50 or 60-2, a converter would be the first thing to install.
Thank you Urs for your appreciation. It’s still a work in progress, I’m currently trapped between the analogue and digital worlds (as most of us are).
I already have the GPSS converter, I was wondering if it’s worth the hassle to install it. If you are satisfied with your 55x maybe I’ll give it a try this spring. The 60-2 has some issues with LOC (in windy conditions), and I could see a new ‘hunting/snaking’ behavior in heading mode lately. It may be an issue with one of the servos or the AP itself.
I am contemplating my options now. Do an overhaul of the servos (probably a few thousands in cost) and keep analogue, or switch to a digital one. I wish I could simply remove the 60-2 and put a digital one in its place, keeping all the servos.
The Sandel EHSI is also too old now (but pretty reliable and as complex as a new Aspen from an operational perspective). Going full glass panel is not yet an option, as I am getting my IR this summer and I want to practice with analogue needles as well. After that, who knows? Maybe Avydine will launch a full PFD for GA as they used to provide for the older model Cirri?
I do my best in avoiding Garmin for the moment, while they don’t change their mentality and unfair practices in dealing with their own customers and competition alike.
AlexTB20 wrote:
I already have the GPSS converter, I was wondering if it’s worth the hassle to install it. If you are satisfied with your 55x maybe I’ll give it a try this spring. The 60-2 has some issues with LOC (in windy conditions), and I could see a new ‘hunting/snaking’ behavior in heading mode lately. It may be an issue with one of the servos or the AP itself.
Looking at my experience with the 55X I would think not but it’s rather normal. With GPSS it is rock steady on the magenta line, with CDI or LOC in windy conditions it wags the tail like a dog in front of a butchers shop. GPSS on the 55x is all I ever wanted, VOR, LOC, ILS is of very limited use, primarily in calm weather. If it’s windy, forget it.
I would definitly try to use the GPSS if you already have it.
AlexTB20 wrote:
I wish I could simply remove the 60-2 and put a digital one in its place, keeping all the servos.
Digital alone is not the issue. I was looking at the S-Tec 3100 when they came up with a possible STC for the Mooneys but as it did not materialize left it. Now I hear from several people who do have it, that while the IAS mode is lovely, the other modes are just like the 55X. Actually, quite a few people say the 60-2 is better than the 55×.
If I had the possibility, I would switch to the Avidyne DCF90 or the G500. Unfortunately neither have an STC for my plane and the G500 would be out of reach financially. The DCF90, being a slide in and using the S-Tec servos would be fine. Unfortunately, only Cirrus, Beech and Cessnas are certified for it.
So you will be quite limited if you want to avoid Garmin. For all proper purposes, they do own the market now and what they don’t own usually does not go for our kind of airplane in terms of STC’s. Yet, you will have to wait anyhow, according to Garmin, the Trinidad is not yet on the STC list
Well if your AP is basically not working and is snaking all the way down the ILS then sure that is pretty crap.
But the King units don’t do that, unless they are broken. STEC are worse, due to not using a pitch+roll primary reference (not sure about all of them?).
For enroute, sids, stars and procedures generally the need for more precise tracking is IMHO just not worth spending five figures, having the plane taken half apart (bearing in mind most installers can’t take on a job of that size and do it well) and gambling with it all working.
Peter, I’ve tested the heading mode of the autopilot again, today. There was a moderate crosswind and everything worked perfectly. 20 minutes later, with a 20-25 kts crosswind, snaking reappears.
It seems this is an issue with all rate based autopilots. Based on other comments, Stec in particular don’t really like any kind of wind. Combined with the fact that I also most probably have a servo lag (I don’t think the servos had any kind of maintenance in the past 10 years) it doesn’t work as expected.
Does anyone knows who can overhaul Stec servos in Europe? Maybe I can at least get a quote…
