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Is there a market for a box which merges certified ADS-B IN with uncertified ADS-B IN? (ARINC429 etc)

This topic comes up all the time. There is no way to display FLARM or uncertified (SIL=0/1) ADS-B IN data on panel mounted avionics.

One can display the stuff on Ipads etc but most pilots don’t want to be looking at an Ipad when flying. Many don’t have anywhere to mount one…

I am working on a new “box” at work which has a few RS232/422/485 ports and there is a bit of room on the PCB for one of these.

So one could merge e.g. RS232 traffic data and ARINC429 traffic data, into a composite data stream.

There are some nontrivial aspects e.g. a TAS product can merge a transponder-carrying target with the same target emitting ADS-B OUT because – in Europe – there is no way to emit ADS-B OUT without having a Mode S transponder, so it always has the 24 bit airframe ID for both of them, and if they both match then it displays just the one blob. But in the “new world of electronic conspicuity” a lot of people are emitting uncertified ADS-B OUT without carrying a transponder, so no 24 bit ID will be available for these.

Obviously such a product could not be legally installed in a certified aircraft, but there is quite a big homebuilt community, especially in the US.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

With the Trx1500a (or the successor Air Traffic) I can display Flarm and uncertified Ads-B traffic on my Garmin GTN/GNS and G500. All legal and certified …

EDNW, Germany

Does it merge uncertified ADS-B IN with active-TAS so you get transponder-only targets with distance, relative height and azimuth? Maybe this is relevant?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Transponder-Only Traffic is not displayed on the map – only range derived from signal strength and altitude. If the same traffic has uncertified Ads-B Out as well it is of course visible on the map. Just as any other form of Flarm/uncertified Ads-B.
I do not have an active TAS System installed.

EDNW, Germany

Let me clarify what I think is the application.

It is for merging traffic data from an active TAS box (Avidyne, Garmin, L3, Honeywell, etc) with ADS-B data picked up by a “portable” receiver.

While one can get ADS-B IN on these active TAS boxes (Avidyne are finally doing the TAS6xxA now, while Honeywell never will), this will show only SIL=3 targets, which – in Europe – almost nobody in light GA is radiating. Bizjets and airliners are, but they (a) all have transponders and (b) fly mostly in CAS anyway, so are not a relevant consideration in most traffic avoidance scenarios.

Most light GA emitters will not show up on any of these (Avidyne, Garmin, L3). Whereas an uncertified ADS-B IN product will pick up all ADS-B emitters regardless of the certification level. So if you fly OCAS (like most GA) and want to see ADS-B emitters, this is a much better option.

So the product in question would merge the uncertified ADS-B/FLARM traffic data (usually RS232 I guess) with the (usually ARINC429, RS232 is some old Avidyne MFD installations) traffic data from the active TAS box

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Thanks for clarifying.
I believe the Garmin Gdl88 would be able to perform the tasks of your mystery box as it can handle 2 Arinc Inputs from an AdsB/Flarm Source (e.g. the 1500a) and a TAS system. On one of the planes I flew with the 1500a connected to the Gdl88 the targets were not merged but shown as two targets (in this case the Ads-B Input from the Trx1500a and the Ads-B signal received by the GDL88 antenna). I cannot verify if these double targets would also show up when connected to an active TAS.

EDNW, Germany

Peter wrote:

in the “new world of electronic conspicuity” a lot of people are emitting uncertified ADS-B OUT without carrying a transponder, so no 24 bit ID will be available for these. Obviously such a product could not be legally installed in a certified aircraft, but there is quite a big homebuilt community, especially in the US.

I’m not sure I understand where this would fit in, in the US. No US aircraft emit ADS-B without a transponder, and Mode C + UAT traffic is displayed by ADS-B IN. There is no difference in that regard between certified and homebuilt aircraft and equipment. Maybe I’m missing some subtlety.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 26 Jul 19:12

I’m not sure I understand where this would fit in, in the US. No US aircraft emit ADS-B without a transponder, and Mode C + UAT traffic is displayed by ADS-B IN. Maybe I’m missing some subtlety.

No; I think this issue doesn’t really exist in the US, because all ADS-B OUT emitters there are SIL=3 i.e. “certified”. The only application scenario would be to use some cheap receiver (which doesn’t output ARINC429 traffic) to drive a panel mount display device.

I believe the Garmin Gdl88 would be able to perform the tasks of your mystery box

I don’t think it can, because no certified avionics product will merge uncertified data with certified data and output certified data.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I don’t think it can, because no certified avionics product will merge uncertified data with certified data and output certified data.

Doesn’t your own comment answer your question? Ie it is not possible to do that in certified aircraft.

EGTK Oxford

I am happy with having two identical targets – wether they are merged or not is just a cosmetic detail for me.
And as much as I get your idea and I love playing around with electronics myself, I fear that the number of people that own a GA plane which is expensive enough to be fitted with a proper active TAS system, is not very willing to wire a non-certified, “portable” box into their avionics.

EDNW, Germany
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