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Thuraya etc for weather data

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I think the issue, which Achim found by experimenting, is that Thuraya's "GMPRS" (50kbits/sec) service is too unreliable to be useful, while its dial-up service (9.6kbits/sec) is fine but too slow for all but dedicated tasks where you grab a small piece of data e.g. tafs/metars, or bigger stuff like radar images from a private website proxy which strips off all the advertising etc.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Interested if anyone has managed to get a Delorme In reach which has two way messaging to send taf/metars. I assume you need a device to receive an ICAO code in a text message and reply with the details.

EGTK Oxford

I think the issue, which Achim found by experimenting, is that Thuraya's "GMPRS" (50kbits/sec) service is too unreliable to be useful,

Actually I said the opposite with the caveat of not having done a lot of testing so far. Today it was perfect. Once it connects (which takes up to 10 minutes after turning on the phone so I do it on the ground), it is reliable. I got metars, tafs, a radar image, sferics and a sat image today in flight. That is not possible with the other networks like Iridium (esp. the sat image).

The ADL110 uses an integrated Iridium transceiver and performs its own compression. I think it is a great device, excellent build quality and feature set. The Thuraya solution can do more but it is a do-it-yourself piecemeal approach. mdoerr is working on a similar setup as I have.

I would want to see Thuraya's GMPRS working solidly for some time, because during my extensive tests I found it near useless.

Thuraya's customer service was the same - but they did have the resources to operate a team scanning the internet (including Usenet postings) and they emailed me to take down a comment I posted about them!

I think they are better now but I am sticking with the dial-up service.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Mmmm

Everybody says that iridium is not okay but both the MLX770 as well as the Garmin gSr56 are iridium solutions and both have very happy bikers. basically it means that all data was optimalized for this kind of setup.

Thuraya will offer more bandwith ... However .. The reception is more complicated..

Everybody says that iridium is not okay but both the MLX770 as well as the Garmin gSr56 are iridium solutions and both have very happy bikers.

Yes but they only offer METAR/TAF and precipitation radar (with very limited coverage) plus some simple communication. I wanted a lot more than that, most importantly different radar sources and satellite images. My solution can do a lot more than both MLX770 and the Garmin but it is not an off the shelf product. Acquisition cost was around € 1500 but it would be less now because certain things can be done for less. On top of that a few dozen hours to figure everything out.

I would want to see Thuraya's GMPRS working solidly for some time, because during my extensive tests I found it near useless.

Cause your Thuraya phone is from 1975. The current XT with the latest firmware is good in my experience. Never had a case where I could not establish a connection.

Never had a case where I could not establish a connection.

Are you sure, referring to GMPRS?

Can the XT get a GPS fix (necessary for any functionality, on a satphone) if switched on at 150kt? None of the other Thuraya phones I tested can, and some could not even get a fix in a moving vehicle.

Everybody says that iridium is not okay but both the MLX770 as well as the Garmin gSr56 are iridium solutions and both have very happy bikers.

Iridium works well but it does only 2400bits/sec (240bytes/sec) which translates, roughly, to being OK for text, and really lousy for graphical images unless (a) delivered from a private server which presents them efficiently and (b) marketed in the context of an expensive installation like the ~€10k MLX770 which automatically self-selects pilots who care little for money and are happy to pay €50-100/month for the data.

Thuraya's biggest problem is that it is an "Arab" product which seems to have been designed for the large mass of people in the Middle East, India, N Africa, etc but obviously those who are away from terrestrial GSM coverage. They have good coverage here but seem to care little for European business, with a "could not care less" attitude to tech support etc. You get better support from an Indian call centre for a cellular company staffed with script monkeys, but there is usually a route to "second level support". This attitude came through time and time again in my comms with them. Even their dealers told me they just tear their hair out the whole time. This means that any serious/professional user is going to go to Iridium even if it costs 10x as much (which as about the right ratio!) - simply because they can get a solution and they can talk to somebody who gives them straight answers. Also Thuraya seems to have got their American (Hughes) satellites under a deal which prohibits them going after the US market, and since virtually all avionics business is US based, this means Iridium, which also offers worldwide coverage.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Are you sure, referring to GMPRS?

Yes, never used dialup, don't even have a setup for that.

Can the XT get a GPS fix (necessary for any functionality, on a satphone) if switched on at 150kt? None of the other Thuraya phones I tested can, and some could not even get a fix in a moving vehicle.

Yes. I didn't even connect the external GPS antenna. It sits in its car docker mounted over my head. It can reliably get a GPS fix in its car docker inside the aircraft at 150+ KTAS. I've done extensive testing on that. Given its use of spot-beams for different regions, it might make sense to restart it every now an then because once it has a fix, it will show the name of the region (country) and never change that unless you restart it. However, I don't know whether that also means it never switches spot beams. I was able to use the connection from EDDS (Stuttgart) to LDDU (Dubrovnik) without problems even though it still said "Germany" when I landed in Croatia (where it should say "Mediterranean").

Also Thuraya seems to have got their American (Hughes) satellites under a deal which prohibits them going after the US market

Thuraya uses geo stationary satellites. Do you think a Saudi company would be granted permission to install a geo stationary satellite over US soil?

I agree Thuraya product support sucks. The answers I got were all completely clueless. However, the product generally works well and there is just no alternative to Thuraya when it comes to price and performance. Both orders of magnitude better than the competition. So I can live with that.

an expensive installation like the ~€10k MLX770

I'd certainly buy the ADL110 before I'd even consider the MLX770. That is available at reasonable cost with GNS uplink and STC. Also the recurring costs are very attractive.

Do you think a Saudi company would be granted permission to install a geo stationary satellite over US soil?

Very little chance of that anyway - unless US soil extends well south of Panama

Thuraya would not even be allowed to cover the USA.

The first Thuraya satellite covered all of the UK, from a satellite slightly N of Madagascar, IIRC.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Jason: I use the Delorme Inreach device and have 'hacked' their webform and can send myself a short message indicating the ICAO code of the aircraft and receive all the weather back in a reply message. This way I can get the latest weather while flying. I am not only getting the METAR/TAF but also the GFS data like the location queried.

EDLE, Netherlands
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