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Garmin GTN650 and Avidyne EX600

Well, I did the upgrade and still believe it worth doing. Can't remember the button presses but as I had two I had FPL on one and Default Nav up on the other all the time.

But what we are talking here is installing a 430w vs a 650. I think the 650 is by far the better install. But differences of opinion are what make life interesting!

EGTK Oxford

"on the GTN it is push frequency knob - tap on NAV frequency - push Menu - Tap Default Nav - Tap CDI - not something I want to do when intercepting the localizer. Or is there a better way?"

there is: To change the NAV frequency you don't need to push a knob - you can enter it right away to active or standby freq and there is a CDI button on the map screen where you already are when approaching the ILS. All is configurable should you desire to change the screen ;)

EDLN and EDKB

GPSS is a biggie and once Peter gets it, he will not understand how he managed to live without it for so long! However, a GTN won't give the KFC225 GPSS capability, this needs an Aspen EFD or a separate GPSS box.

I don't think GTNs are a sensible upgrade from the GNS but I don't see any reason at all to go for the GNS in a new install. It's outdated technology and they are not even significantly cheaper.

Also, the GTN650 is missing a lot of the features the GTN750 has. It's not just a different screen size. Take a careful look.

Also look at the Avidyne IFD540. A very nice unit and should be available very soon. I played with the last revision at Tannkosh and I was very impressed.

Also, the GTN650 is missing a lot of the features the GTN750 has

What exactly does the GTN650 miss?

AFAIK it's:

  • no heading input (the heading synchro interface connector apparently didn't fit)
  • no remote control of a GMA340 audio panel
  • no charts (which really need a bigger screen)

IFD540 ... should be available very soon

Didn't they say this for the last 3 years or so?

LSZK, Switzerland

no heading input

My GTN650 takes heading (and other air data) from my Aspen (over a serial link I think). Is it just the XYZ input that's missing?

EGEO

IFD540 ... should be available very soon

Didn't they say this for the last 3 years or so?

They're very open about their current status. It really looks like they will make it around October. The unit they had at Tannkosh made a very good impression. They said they will go for a very broad AML which will include everything there is in the GTN AMLs. They also said that they expect the EASA STCs to follow within a few weeks. There is reason to believe them because Garmin was able to do the same and Avidyne had the EASA STC for the DFC90 very shortly after the FAA STC.

Unless one is in a rush or totally sold on Garmin, I'd take this unit into consideration. When I asked them what the unit can do better than the GTNs, I got among other replies this list:

All of the below features are available on the IFDs, but NOT available in the GTNs.

  • Size and pin compatible with a 430W (or 530W respectively) install, when upgrading you literally pull out the GNS and slide in the IFD.

  • Capacitive touchscreen, but also including multi-touch features like pinch to zoom.

  • Not locked to the touchscreen, knobs and buttons for most functions, more turbulence proof.

  • Graphical Airway flightplan building

  • Geofill - finds waypoints close to your location (or flightplan end) to fill in, as you input, usually only need a couple of characters specified

  • On Screen Procedure Preview, before entry into a flightplan

  • Custom Holds at any point, user configured, with automatic entry calculation Rubberband flight plan planning

  • heading mode (in addition to LOC & GPS), to hold a heading to an intercept of an approach or airway

  • Textual COM station identification (from the database)

  • Textual VOR station identification (from Morse), with automated NAV tuning (*)

  • Touchscreen full QWERTY keyboard, instead of the linear panning keyboard (*)

Unless one is in a rush

Unfortunately I am. It looks like the IFD is coming too late for the 8.33kHz deadline.

My GTN650 takes heading (and other air data) from my Aspen (over a serial link I think)

Yes, it just misses the heading synchro interface.

LSZK, Switzerland

GPSS is a biggie and once Peter gets it, he will not understand how he managed to live without it for so long!

I do have it - see here

no heading input (the heading synchro interface connector apparently didn't fit)

The only reason a GPS needs a heading input is for displaying the map heading-up (which is nice to have but the 650's map is small and if you have an MFD you will never use it) or for airdata calculations if an ADC is built in.

I have ARINC429 heading, from either the SG102 or the SN3500. Currently I am using the SG102's ARINC429 output for the TAS605, and the SG102's XYZ for the KMD550 and the WX500.

Custom Holds at any point, user configured, with automatic entry calculation Rubberband flight plan planning

ATC will virtually never give you that in Europe.

But yes the IFD440 box looks better than a GNS430W. It's just that Avidyne have been "just around the corner" for years, notwithstanding the apparently frank comments on their forum (which to me read like a lot of vague lawyer-vetted marketing BS, with very carefully chosen words).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Does anybody know more about their GNS530/430 trade-in offerings when buying a IFD540/440? How much is it and is it time limited?

EDXQ

ATC will virtually never give you that in Europe

I got it two weeks ago in the UK. OK, I was IFR but in G and the American controller at Lakenheath had a separation problem with C130s also IFR in G and he told me (still outside his sector so I don't think it was a valid instruction) "orbit at present position". I of course responded "negative, orbit in IMC not possible" because one must never orbit in IMC (gyro drift) so the best course of action would be a hold at the present position but given that one would never get the typical instructions like in the US with the holding sector and direction of turns, one would just make up something involving the GPS and the heading bug. So yes, it's not that useful because of the lack of holds at arbitrary locations.

However, the GNS (and I think GTN) units cannot fly a holding unless it is part of an approach procedure, i.e. a standard part of the approach which you would fly in a no radio situation. It cannot fly holdings that are part of the arrival or that are published enroute holdings. Therefore, the feature has some value. I think I have flown 2 or 3 holdings in my career that I didn't request myself for training purposes.

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