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Garmin GTN650 and Avidyne EX600

OK; orbit at present position is common; I get it when joining into Shoreham quite often, and often I choose it myself when somebody turns up too close.

But any half decent autopilot can orbit. On the KFC225, pressing AP if the roll angle is between 7 and 25 degrees will hold that roll angle. Below 7 it will level the wings, and above 25 (I think) it will disconnect.

The problem with an orbit is that wind will blow you along...

But you are not going to get a formal holding pattern in Class G, ever.

The practice of "controlling" traffic in Class G is an ambiguity of Class G. The controller has say a C130 and your C182 and something has to give...

However some UK units have a bit of a bad name for sending Class G traffic all over the place; I saw it with Brize EGVN recently.

I have had maybe 2 holds in "formal IFR", ever. One was at Zurich c. 2009.

Holds are trivial to fly; fly a DCT to the holding fix (in NAV mode) and then go to HDG and twiddle the heading bug for the desired effect. A purist (me on a good day) will set the OBS to the inbound track and intercept it in NAV mode, then switch to HDG for the outbound bits... I would not pay a penny for flying holds.

I would pay for electronic flight plan injection, for the ability to store say 100 waypoints per flight plan, for PRNAV and LPV (which are the only reasons really for looking at this at all), and the rest is not material on the scale of what one spends time on when flying. A nice MFD which displays European VFR VRPs is a must (one of the KMD550's great selling points at the time).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The only reason a GPS needs a heading input is for displaying the map heading-up

And I guess for guidance in a "fly heading" leg - if it actually supports this, I don't know

(But if it doesn't, Vasa's "your BRNAV kit doesn't support all path terminators" argument is becoming even more ridiculous)

LSZK, Switzerland

But any half decent autopilot can orbit. On the KFC225, pressing AP if the roll angle is between 7 and 25 degrees will hold that roll angle. Below 7 it will level the wings, and above 25 (I think) it will disconnect.

No question I can orbit. However, you should never do that in IMC. Our gyros use the gravity vector to erect and they are not designed to fly with bank for a prolonged time. All ICAO procedures are designed to include straight and level portions. If you orbit for minutes and then return to straight and level, you might actually not be straight and level at all. A big no for me, would never comply with that instruction unless it's perfect VMC.

A nice MFD which displays European VFR VRPs is a must

Hmm, this is what I use the Garmin 695 and the iPad for. The GNS already contain VRPs (few people know, VRP Echo of EDDS would be in the database as "DSE"). I have a clear separation between planning and awareness (iPad + 695) and steering the aircraft (GNS430). An MFD is just an overly expensive way to get outdated and half-capable primitive technology that occupies precious rack space for things an iPad can do much better...

I have never seen a scenario where you fly a heading and are not doing it either by hand or using the autopilot in the HDG mode.

Also in any scenario where ATC care about the (usually) small difference between heading and track, they will give you vectors.

And, for any given wind, any such difference will in any case vary according to the TAS of the aircraft.

There are SIDs where you fly e.g. the runway heading but you fly that in HDG and then sort out the next bit. I don't go for the usual sky-god comments normally but if a pilot needs a GPS to engage immediately upon leaving the runway, to fly a heading, and then transition to some track intercept, then he ought to stay on the ground and read a book.

One almost never flies a complete SID so one needs to be "reasonably awake" because ATC will give you something different sooner or later.

No question I can orbit. However, you should never do that in IMC. Our gyros use the gravity vector to erect and they are not designed to fly with bank for a prolonged time. All ICAO procedures are designed to include straight and level portions. If you orbit for minutes and then return to straight and level, you might actually not be straight and level at all. A big no for me, would never comply with that instruction unless it's perfect VMC.

I agree, but I wonder how long it does take. I would say many minutes, unless the gyro is shagged.

Hmm, this is what I use the Garmin 695 and the iPad for.

Me too, but why carry an extra thing (with the charging connections, etc, and a touch screen which will screw it up if you accidentally touch it) when it should be in the panel?

From vague memory I think the G500/1000 do display VRPs, and Avidyne IFDs probably will too.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

"on the GTN it is push frequency knob - tap on NAV frequency - push Menu - Tap Default Nav - Tap CDI - not something I want to do when intercepting the localizer. Or is there a better way?"

there is: To change the NAV frequency you don't need to push a knob - you can enter it right away to active or standby freq and there is a CDI button on the map screen where you already are when approaching the ILS. All is configurable should you desire to change the screen ;)

On the GTN650, which I was writing about, there isn't. There is only one frequency pair displayed (NAV or COM), and the CDI button is absent from the map page unless I missed a configuration option somewhere to switch it on. GTN750 has enough screen real estate not to suffer from these flaws, they display both NAV and COM frequency pairs as well as the button.

Leaving it on the default NAV page is a good idea, as somebody else mentioned, especially if you have an MFD.

Biggin Hill

I agree, but I wonder how long it does take. I would say many minutes, unless the gyro is shagged.

Shorter usually for MEMS gyros, their bias drift usually requires a tighter coupling to the gravity vector

From vague memory I think the G500/1000 do display VRPs

Last time I flew a G1000 C172 (a year ago or so), I didn't notice any VRP's, except those that have been entered as user waypoints.

LSZK, Switzerland

I have never seen a scenario where you fly a heading and are not doing it either by hand or using the autopilot in the HDG mode.

Sure, I'm not the one who argues any GPS needs to support all path terminators.

And yes, since in the no wind case heading and track legs are the same, you can emulate a heading leg with a track leg and stay within the protected area.

LSZK, Switzerland

Me too, but why carry an extra thing (with the charging connections, etc, and a touch screen which will screw it up if you accidentally touch it) when it should be in the panel?

Because you end up paying more than 15x the cost of an iPad for outdated hardware with a static feature set while the iPad (or Android tab) gets more powerful every month. The EX600 is already 3 years old which means the actual hardware is at least 5 years old given the slow certification process. The iPad can go for hours without charging and I never had problems with the touch interface.

There is one thing only the EX600 can do today -- color display of the data from the Avidyne stormscope. It's supposed to be a very good product, much more sensitive and accurate than the standard Ryan solutions but it operates in a Ryan compatible mode unless connected to an EX600.

Unless it's for steering the aircraft or needs a deep integration otherwise (e.g. sensors), I would stay away from anything certified. It gets you inferior products at excessive cost.

The only reason a GPS needs a heading input is for displaying the map heading-up (which is nice to have but the 650's map is small and if you have an MFD you will never use it) or for airdata calculations if an ADC is built in.

To display Stormscope strikes or traffic data on the GPS Map pages, the Garmin units require heading input. Of course, you have it available as an ARINC input.

Although the GTN750 supports the syncro heading as a direct input, the GTN650 supports heading as a serial or ARINC input, the same as is the case for the GNS430W/530W. If one has a WX500 installed, it has a synchro heading input and provides it to the GTN or GNS via the serial data.

KUZA, United States

The main problem with the Avidyne unit is that it is only a promise.

KUZA, United States
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