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Avionics that become completely useless, and database-induced obsolescence

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I’m not as pleased with King radios as I had been for the last four decades. My KLX 135 GPS comm, purchased new in 1989. It was regarded as top of the line for VFR use back in the day. I has recently had a GPS clock failure. The result is that although the GPS still works, you have to set the time, and then wait for a search the sky (half an hour), so hardly useful for navigation for a short flight. I called the avionics shop, and they say it is no longer supported, and they cannot repair it. I asked for clarification of cannot repair, and it was absolute, don’t even send it in, they have no manuals nor parts to repair it. Use it until it dies, and replace it with a newer model.

‘Makes me wonder who would spend the multi thousand dollars I see on eBay for these, knowing that the minute it burps, it’s done! I used to regard King as about the best. When I replace this unit, I’ll be shopping around…

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada

Pilot_DAR wrote:

Use it until it dies, and replace it with a newer model.

Which explains why for my VFR use, and in the spirit of this thread, I have little interest in installed avionics except for simple robust stuff with minimized (ideally zero) need for ‘support’. Little like that is available new. If I’m going to play the designed for obsolescence game, installed hardware makes no sense and it’s going to be with throw away portables instead, with no installation and approval burden. My quasi-installed/powered Stratus ADS-B IN plus Mini iPad/Foreflight does navigation & traffic well for me and total cost was about $800 USD. Every so often the hardware gets replaced and delegated to ground duty before in due course its shelved forever or trashed.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 12 May 22:24

Silvaire wrote:

If I’m going to play the designed for obsolescence game, installed hardware makes no sense and it’s going to be with throw away portables instead, with no installation and approval burden.

Yup, me too! I won’t be installing panel mounted GPS again, Ipad or whatever from now on. Whatever basic comm gets me through the controlled airspace will do. If the manufacturers won’t support the panel mounted product as long as my plane continues to be flyable, I won’t invest in their products!

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada

and it’s going to be with throw away portables instead,

My portable GPS Garmin 196 (B&W screen) with good battery life given the vintage, can still have the data updated and works fine. PocketFMS on the iPhone backs it up.

The problem in Europe that to access higher altitudes for more efficient cruising, or flying on top you need IFR. Airways requires GPS (and a second NAV source, so practically VOR). The cheapest solution is a Garmin GNC 255 NAV COM and a GNC 355 IFR GPS COM (you also need second COM and Mode S). A work around is an old KLN94 which seem to be quite long lived but no longer supported except for the data.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Pilot_DAR wrote:

wait for a search the sky (half an hour)

It’s not supposed to take more than 12.5 minutes, isn’t it…?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

RobertL18C wrote:

you also need second COM

You don’t need a second COM! (At least not from a legal point of view.)

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

RobertL18C wrote: you also need second COM

You don’t need a second COM! (At least not from a legal point of view.)

UK AIP GEN 1.5, 5.2.1(f):
Applicability:
All EU-OPS aeroplanes under IFR, or under VFR over routes that cannot be navigated by reference to visual landmarks.

Requirements:
The carriage and operation of two independent VHF 8.33 kHz channel spacing aircraft radio equipment suitable to maintain continuous two-way radiotelephony communication with the appropriate ATC units on the in-tended route. Specific exemptions as listed in ENR 1.8 apply.

EGTR

two independent VHF 8.33 kHz channel spacing aircraft radio equipment

I doubt @bookworm is still here but if he is he might be interested in this

I moved these posts into a new thread because “avionics which suddenly become useless” is a valuable standalone topic.

It doesn’t happen often but the above is one example, and is possibly due to the GPS week number overflow bug.

Most common cases must be where the database is no longer available. This has happened to loads of old boxes. I have a GPSMAP 196 which stragely is still on the Garmin website and lists a unit with the US database. I am sure it’s a fossil.

I gather a load of Avidyne MFDs cannot get mapdata any more – can anyone list any models?

The KLN94 remains supported. As is the KMD550, amazingly, although King are running out of the 20MB linear flash cartridges because their dumb system never tracked returns of the old ones so obviously many people never bothered to return them.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

arj1 wrote:

UK AIP GEN 1.5, 5.2.1(f):
Applicability:
All EU-OPS aeroplanes under IFR, or under VFR over routes that cannot be navigated by reference to visual landmarks.

Requirements:
The carriage and operation of two independent VHF 8.33 kHz channel spacing aircraft radio equipment suitable to maintain continuous two-way radiotelephony communication with the appropriate ATC units on the in-tended route. Specific exemptions as listed in ENR 1.8 apply.

The AIP is not law but information. That particular piece of information has no basis in law and can be disregarded — at least until the end of the Brexit transition period. An EU member country can’t add requirements to EASA regulations and EASA regulations (specifically part-NCO) make clear that for light GA, one COM unit is enough. EASA has gone through the legal basis for that very clearly in this letter to Eurocontrol.

The important conclusion is

When flying in IFR or CAT VFR with no visual landmarks:
* 1 radio is required for CS-23 Class I aeroplane;
* For all the other aircraft category, 2 independent radios are required

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 13 May 08:07
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I’m going to say VOR is practiacally useless.

None are located anywhere I want to go.

All the ones located at airfields that I might of visited have closed.

In my local aera if your below 2500 feet you can’t recieve one.

I take you 30 minutes to boot up KLX135 over a VOR anyday.

Last Edited by Bathman at 13 May 08:11
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