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The Hall of Shame (a Jeppesen, Garmin and Cessna story)

PetitCessnaVoyageur wrote:

As for database formatting. Don’t you think Jeppesen could separate the packages between different generations of legacy g1000, as they do between legacy and NXi ? It does not sound out of reach.

It certainly doesn’t. That is what they do for the GNS430 vs GNS430WAAS for instance. The question is, is there enough customers to make it worthwile.

One way which might just work is the way they do certain things for the legacy devices: They split the DB up in Western and Eastern Europe with overlapping of some countries. That way, they manage to avoid the overload which appears to be the problem here, if that is the only thing which prevents it from working. So I wonder, if they have subscription models which divide the coverage up, possible that could be a way to get around this or rather to give Jeppesen a way to say, oh of course we do that already, so let him have two db’s for the price of one.

PetitCessnaVoyageur wrote:

Upgrading to SBAS is no longer possible because of the lack of GIA63W.

This was a huge problem for the Mooney series as well. I think infrequently there are some GIA63W’s on the market, which in any case would be a good thing to get hold of if you can find any. Guy I know put a search for one on Ebay and managed to source two units to upgrade his Ovation. Also some avionic shops may get some out of NXI upgrades.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 23 Sep 10:32
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Malibuflyer wrote:

The feature is not broken – it just doesn’t work with the data provided today by a third party data provider.

Then the question will be, why doesn’t the data provider do something to fix it. It is not rocket science if only the database size is a problem. At the very least it would be good practice as G1000’s non WAAS are not exactly rare.

The way it appears is that more and more people walk away from Jeppesen, i.e. onto Garmin’s charts. Not as nice, not what we are used to but in most cases perfectly usable.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

One can physically get a GIA63W but will it just plug in and work? I don’t think so.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Malibuflyer wrote:

Then you are operating in a lucky part of electronics. The feature is not broken – it just doesn’t work with the data provided today by a third party data provider.

Garmin however are no stranger to denying broken features are actually broken: remember the GTX 345 pointing north and getting into an endless boot loop debacle, and the time it took to even acknowledge there was a problem despite the heaps of evidence?

Andreas IOM

Emir wrote:

Which will never happen because work order has to come from airframe manufacturer who doesn’t have interest in financing development of the fix.

Sure, I realise that. So maybe I should say that it would be reasonable for Garmin to fix it, not that it would be reasonable to expect that they will.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I think a moving map of the Jepp approach chart is a core feature in the current century.

Otherwise one could just fly with paper, or PDFs borrowed from someone and save hundreds a year.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

One can physically get a GIA63W but will it just plug in and work? I don’t think so.

From a report I’ve read, avoinic shops who have done upgrades will tell you “find the GIA63W’s and we will do the rest”.

That PIREP from a Mooney Ovation described the actual update process thus:

- Hardware installation requires two GIA63W and two WAAS compatible antennas. The antennas are readily available.
- There is need for some wiring upgrade between the system and the legacy AP (in his case an STEC 55X). I could not find out if the same is necessary if a Garmin AP is installed.
- The rest of the “game” is software upgrade which apparently takes most of the time.

The PIREP sais the whole upgrade was finished in 1.5 workdays.

So apparently the most difficult thing is to find GIA63W’s with the necessary paperwork.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Mooney_Driver wrote:

I could not find out if the same is necessary if a Garmin AP is installed.

Not sure if it is aplicable – I have not seen GFC700 available non GIA63, only on GIA63W.

EGTR

@Antonio wrote:

it is more about whether it is considered a safety case or not.

If DSAC considers studying the case, they will give their opinion on this.

Antonio wrote:

My point is we as an industry are blessed that 40YO aircraft are supported FOC (even if only for safety cases).

I totally agree, and agree too that the wings does matter more than the PC inside the cockpit.

Antonio wrote:

Well, the core feature was the display of Jepp charts (which is still available, did I get that right?). The lost feature is the automatic bringing up of charts or groups of charts based on FPL or AC position…was that also a core feature?

Don’t know if it is core, but I can say it is the only way described in the g1000 AFMS to access charts.

@Airborne_Again wrote:

I don’t think comparisons with e.g. movie availability on various media are fair.

Thank you

@Mooney_Driver wrote:

It certainly doesn’t. That is what they do for the GNS430 vs GNS430WAAS for instance. The question is, is there enough customers to make it worthwile.

I understand the question of “fleet size”. But I bought a service that was for sale…

Not sure if it is aplicable – I have not seen GFC700 available non GIA63, only on GIA63W.

There were early GFC700 equipped DA42 (year 2008) which had GIA63.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia
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