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Why are old Garmin GNS boxes holding their prices so well?

What happens if you transfer a route full of “random” VFR waypoints to the GNS/GTN box? For example the typical VFR route which uses villages as waypoints?

These would need to be converted into user waypoints in the GPS, and eventually you would end up with a huge number of them.

So for flight plan transfer to work as I think most expect, the waypoints would need to be the traditional IFR ones which will already be in the GPS database, which can then be referenced by name.

This was also a key difference between Garmin handhelds and Honeywell (Skyforce) units e.g. the Skymap 2 and 3, which created difficulties for developers of the software which could load flight plans into them (Navbox, in those days). I wonder how this issue is solved in this case.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

There are a number of reasons for the older Garmin boxes to hold their value.

Aviation of a very conservative place and for the last ten years or so the 430 and it’s like have the best showroom performance of all the GPS navigators ( I would argue that the KLN89b & KNL94 had the best practical performance ). But due to the 430 fitting into the same slot as a KX170 and provided NAV/COM/ILS/GPS & a prity screen it took the world by storm and became the benchmark.

Your average PPL is hard pushed to use 50% of the functions of the 430 let alone the NP approach functions so the box is already massively over spec for most users…………. So why pay more $$$$ for functions that will never be used by your customers ?

At the moment the demand that is holding up the price is the club trainer / tourer that need an 8.33 upgrade, I have three aircraft that are in need of an upgrade and the 430 is the cheaper way to meet the market expectation of some sort of RNAV.

The 430 will have customer support for some time ( unlike the KLN89b ) because of the large numbers of units in the market and so is a good place to be for my type of operation.

For my personal aircraft the GTN is the way to go as current IR holder I can make use of all the functions and some of the new stuff it does is very useful the 650 is economical on panel space for those who have a G500 or the like and the 750 gives a large map for those with steam instruments.

So it is the flying clubs that are in effect holding up the price of the 430’s, private owners have ether got them fitted and have all the functionality they need, those private owners needing to do a major upgrade will go for the GTN.

Of course the availability of wide-ranging generic STCc providing full IFR approvals and allowing easy installation without massive certification costs also helps hold up the second-hand value.

Avionics geek.
Somewhere remote in Devon, UK.

Peter wrote:

What happens if you transfer a route full of “random” VFR waypoints to the GNS/GTN box? For example the typical VFR route which uses villages as waypoints?

These would need to be converted into user waypoints in the GPS, and eventually you would end up with a huge number of them.

With the GNS, these waypoints are assigned latitude longitude and in the GNS they are user waypoints. Up to 1000 user waypoints can be assigned. They are named CX000 thru CX999. If a user latitude-longitude is within a certain distance of an existing user waypoint, a new one is not generated, but the one that is already in the GNS is used. One nice feature available in the GNS, is the ability to clear all the user waypoints, rather than requiring a waypoint by waypoint deletion. The GTN only has the latter capability. One nice thing on the GTN is that you can edit the name of a user waypoint to something that matches what is used on GP.

I don’t use GP to load my flightplans here in the US, because Garmin and ForeFlight have an arrangement and ForeFlight is able to transfer flightplans to the GNS and GTN panels. I have found it more convenient to not keep flightplans on my GNS530W, but rather to keep them on ForeFlight as favorites or make up the route on ForeFlight and transfer it in less than a second to the GNS.

As far as avionics are concerned, used avionics of all types hold their prices until they are obsolete. Before the GNS series made the KNS80 obsolete, a used unit would run $3500 after 20 years.

KUZA, United States

Interesting that the GTN cannot delete user waypoints en-masse. I can see the potential here for clogging up the unit with user waypoints and then one day the pilot discovers his next FP won’t load.

This is not applicable to IFR pilots who will be using almost totally database waypoints.

But with a GTN or IFD boxes, I wonder how many will be loading flight plans anyway, when the predictive airway-based entry is so fast. To do it, you have to get the Eurocontrol validated FP into Garmin Pilot (how is that done – can GP import an airway route) and that route has to be copied/pasted from a browser in which you accessed the routing site.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The handling of user defined waypoints (UDWP) by GP, is IMHO very poorly executed, especially in combination with Flightstream210 and the GNS integration.

I operate from private airstrips a lot of the time, which I have set up and named sensibly in both the GNS & GP as UDWP. During the transfer to the GNS box via a flight plan, GP renames them each time hence creating a new UDWP with their own special naming convention. Cluttering up both systems with pointless new UDWP’s.

No attempt is currently made to see if they already exist. This is in contrast to the older PC based Gamin Flight Plan migrator that respects the original name, and furthermore will attempt to see if it exists already as a UDWP inside the GNS box, so the logic to support this clearly exists inside the GNS boxes, just shoddily implemented by the GP developers.

I have raised this with Garmin, but so far just been given the brush off.


Lovin' it

From here

172driver wrote:

You might be surprised. The going rate for a 430W is around USD 6-7000, up from about 4500 a few years back.

Used Garmin navigators are surprisingly expensive. The price difference between a used GTN650 (with paperwork) and a new GTN650Xi (in both cases including installation, kit, antenna, databases…) is only about $1000.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 31 Jan 08:57
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

We bought two 430W’s in the last few weeks. If buying one there’s a few things that you have to factor in:

- Try get one back from a flat rate repair at Garmin which will make like new and have a release note

- The install kit is expensive if purchased as a Garmin kit. Best to buy an IFD440 install kit, or used tray/connectors/backshells and buy new pins.

- You need a GA35 Waas antenna too

We have bought used avionics from Chase at Avionics Source, Derek Boxwell, Alan Fox all post regularly on Facebook. In the UK Michael Kemp in Southend has a lot of used stuff at good prices.

Buying, Selling, Flying
EIBR, Ireland

Garmin are currently running a trade-in deal on GNS against a new GTN. You get $2000 for a 430/W or $2500 for a 530/W when buying a GTN Xi. In addition, they throw in a Flightsteam 510 (worth about $1500) and you get a year of free databases in a Pilotpack via a FlyGarmin subscription. The returned GNS must be serviceable and include the tray and backplate.
The deal runs until 24 February through any Garmin dealer.

Last Edited by wigglyamp at 31 Jan 10:34
Avionics geek.
Somewhere remote in Devon, UK.

Avoid buying a GNS430 non WAAS that is 24 Volt only. These can’t be serviced anymore. Used to be possible to upgrade them to WAAS and get service, but that option is no longer offered.

KUZA, United States
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