Dimme wrote:
As far as I’m aware there is no such IFR certificate issued in Sweden. As PIC you are responsible to make sure that you have the required instruments for the approach you are to commence.
There isn’t. The aircraft POH must of course state that it can be used for IFR, otherwise it is, as you say, the responsibility of the PIC to ensure that the aircraft has all required equipment.
Airborne_Again wrote:
The aircraft POH must of course state that it can be used for IFR
I am aware of newer C172s that specify kinds of operation and required equipment in their limitations chapter of the POH, but I’m also aware of older C172s who are still flying IFR but do not specify kinds of operation in the POH. It only states “The airplane may be equipped for day, night, VFR or IFR-operation. Your Cessna Dealer will be happy to assist you in selecting equipment best suited to your needs.”
Are you saying that the older C172s are not allowed to fly IFR just because they don’t specify if they are equipped for IFR in the POH?
I think unless it is explicitly forbidden to fly IFR in the POH, then it is up to the PIC to decide.
Dimme wrote:
I think unless it is explicitly forbidden to fly IFR in the POH, then it is up to the PIC to decide.
Older FAA certified aircraft designs (meaning most of them now flying) did not address IFR versus VFR in their certification, POH etc. The intent is that for IFR they only need to comply with the generic equipment list and periodic transponder/pitot static test. Aircraft initially cerified in other countries (e.g, Germany) needed to meet additional requirements for IFR operation in their initial certification and therefore some of them are restricted to VFR regardless of equipment.
Dimme wrote:
It only states “The airplane may be equipped for day, night, VFR or IFR-operation. Your Cessna Dealer will be happy to assist you in selecting equipment best suited to your needs.”
Which means exactly that!
Are you saying that the older C172s are not allowed to fly IFR just because they don’t specify if they are equipped for IFR in the POH?
Not at all. But some aircraft are not type certified for IFR. And if they’re not, it doesn’t matter what equipment you put in them.
So, what happened to the German IFR certificate? It was often reported as costing €1000.
The Swiss one doesn’t exist anymore since August 2016, when Part-NCO came into force. It was obvious that it had to go. Only the PIC may decide if the aircraft is fit for VFR day, night or IFR. Therefore, this paper got removed (it also lost its national legal basis, except for Annex I aircraft whcih are still nationally regulated).
Hello
EASA-REG AIRCRAFT are submitted to the same rules, except that there is the subsidiarity rule for each country.
to maintain the IFR classification of the aircraft (provided that any modifications remain in conformity with the instrumentation necessary for the IFR classification) you must have a radio-check performed every 2 years (it was every years some years ago) in an approved avionics workshop, and the test of the ATC chain must be up to date.
Here is my form after work in the avionic shop closest to my base (I need a quick appointment and it was to late to fly to favorite shop SIBA at DINAN airport)…it is probably a “friend price” : 1700 € both radio check and ATC.
Then, as I am D-REG i send the form to my CAMO to check the form 22.
That is a crazy price. SIBA do it for 1/3 of that I believe.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Not at all. But some aircraft are not type certified for IFR. And if they’re not, it doesn’t matter what equipment you put in them.
Do you have an example of such an aircraft (I can’t think of a single one, except the obvious VLA, LSA, glider etc)
AFAIK, the DA20 is such an aircraft. This apparently is due to lack of electrostatic protection of the composite airframe. It is “by design” as it was intended as a VFR-only aircraft.
I believe (but need to look up a reference) that it is prohibited to fly the aircraft in IMC so
although technically IFR operations are allowed but only in VMC.
Wolfgang
