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The WiFi aircraft and information ergonomics

This summarises it pretty well: Link

EGTK Oxford

Thanks for elaborating, Peter! One day I’ll understand it all – but it won’t be tomorrow.

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Doesn’t a mode-S transponder transmit position information, and likely more data (ground speed? heading?) that only a GPS receiver can supply?

For the former, only for Enhanced Mode S or ADS-B, neither of which is a requirement in light GA. Enhanced Mode S is required for (I think) 250kt TAS plus capability… A TBM needs Enhanced Mode S, for example. But I am pretty sure there is no requirement to transmit any “GPS” data at that level of GA.

For the latter, no requirement to do that, although GPS GS has been used for Garmin transponder auto mode switching (King ones don’t support that; have to use a landing gear squat switch or a pitot-static differential pressure switch) and then, depending on the transponder firmware (older versions of the GTX330 would radiate everything connected to the RS232 or ARINC429 inputs) it might be "inadvertently radiated, in effect slightly changing the Elementary Mode S to (an allegedly illegal version of) Enhanced Mode S…

Works fine with my plane using a Trig Transponder and a GNS430

I never said it doesn’t work

Last Edited by Peter at 06 Jan 10:26
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter,

or ADS-B (which is nonexistent in Europe for GA, but has, ahem, a great future )

Works fine with my plane using a Trig Transponder and a GNS430

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

put some crypto protection

Seems to confirm my third point.

However one doesn’t need to connect a GPS to a transponder

? Doesn’t a mode-S transponder transmit position information, and likely more data (ground speed? heading?) that only a GPS receiver can supply?

Last Edited by at 06 Jan 09:22
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Have a look at the Connected Panel initiative

I am writing this in a bit of a haste but isn’t the CP limited – as far as the Owner of the Entire Known Universe (Garmin) goes – to their no longer manufactured GNS units?

It works by a reverse engineer (hack) of the crossfill protocol, and Garmin put some crypto protection on the GTN units to stop competitors and other 3rd parties interfacing to them.

Incidentally, for crossfill to work to load a flight plan, the “crossfilling” unit (in the CP case, it would be an Ipad) needs to pretend it has the same version of the Jepp database as the destination unit.

Voiceflight (a US firm offering very slick voice loading of waypoints) solve this for Europe at a fairly hefty cost of $25/month for buying a copy of the Jepp database (I did put them in touch with some individual(s) who can hopefully help them do it more economically but last time I spoke to them they thought the US market was enough for them) and I would be a little suprised if any other company offering flight plan loading had found a way to sidestep this IMHO utterly stupid artefact of the Garmin crossfill protocol. If you had a GPS which had an RS232 (etc) interface via which it could accept textual input like EGKA SAM ORTAC EGJJ, life would be easy…

I would also be less than happy to have WIFI running 100% of the time in the cockpit. Compared to Bluetooth, WIFI uses quite a lot of RF power. This is not going via shielded cables but is radiated freely all over the place. I realise nobody has yet openly reported a problem, but I make a point of not using the Thuraya satphone for data (I don’t use it for voice, and as mentioned above, text messages mostly don’t work to cellular networks in the infidel world) while going down an ILS

Could one connect a Garmin GPS to a King mode S transponder?

Yes, though any incompatibilities are worse between competing products than between same-vendor products

However one doesn’t need to connect a GPS to a transponder except for either auto AIR/GND switching based on GPS GS (which definitely does not work from a KLN94 to a GTX330, despite the wiring being documented by Garmin, who like Honeywell stonewall all enquiries on the topic) or ADS-B (which is nonexistent in Europe for GA, but has, ahem, a great future )

The GTX330 ARINC429 pressure altitude also doesn’t work with the Avidyne TAS60x TCAS boxes (a connection which would save running 10 wires down the length of the plane) and both Garmin and Avidyne stonewall all enquiries on that one too… ARINC429 is supposed to be a standard but somehow the programmers (probably C++ programmers ) still manage to make it not work.

Last Edited by Peter at 06 Jan 09:21
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Well, on a general note about electronics in planes: I feel not necessarily negative about them (we do should embrace progress!), but I do feel very very wary.

On the one hand there is the danger of interconnecting too many devices, so that if one goes berserk all the others might be affected too. I would have to see a strong demonstration of continued reliability of interconnected components before installing any. It must be said to the advantage of the electronics that they cost and weigh less than steam gauges, making a double installation less impossible.

Worse is the fact I already mentioned: all these electronic gimmicks make our brain lazy. There is, for one example, a strong increase of people driving a car without being able to read a paper map – an obvious result of dependency on GPS-fed route finders. How much worse the 3-D environment that a pilot deals with. But I must admit I enjoy an intellectual challenge, which might not be the case for all recreational pilots.

A third point against complex electronics is that we are more bound to use one make only – as I understand it, there are some standards, like ARINC429, for interconnecting devices, but only at the lowest level. Could one connect a Garmin GPS to a King mode S transponder? (just for one example, of course)

Last Edited by at 06 Jan 09:07
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Have a look at the Connected Panel initiative: http://www.connectedpanel.com

EDLE, Netherlands

Ah! So what i feared is actually true. Interoperability isn’t that great.

Good that ADL120 can be a client instead of creating its own network.

That other gadget would then be a WiFi access point. If I fantasize a bit further, there might be a communication gateway as the interface to the data sat network. That device would then create the WiFi network and all other device would join it. Just the same way as at home with the DSL router. It needs probably some service classes to allow/disallow and prioritize access to the outside network. I can also envision an ADS-B in device to provide its information to the other devices on that network.

Frequent travels around Europe

There is one problem I see with all these gadgets: Each of them creates their own WiFi network, e.g. the Butterfly dongle, the Hero cam etc. But you can only connect to one WiFI at a time with your phone/ipad/tablet. We need another gadget that acts as a switch/bridge for all these WiFis!

Btw, the ADL120 is able to act as a WiFi-client. For the above reason (and on my request btw).

EDXQ
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