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Operating cost (to the airport) of VOR DME NDB or ILS, and LPV?

Great, so there should in theory be very little cost required once you’ve jumped through the hoops.

I was once told by a chap who was trying to keep an old ndb and dme it was around £7k or so a year just to keep the thing going. I’ve no idea about the accuarcy of this however or any other costs

There are no EGNOS fees, payable by anybody including airports. I asked one airport manager who should know.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Timothy wrote:

I guess they’ll still have to pay EGNOS fees, though.

Do we know if there is any veracity to this yet? I have seen the question asked a few times but could have missed an answer.

LeSving wrote:

That would create interesting threads

Yes… Maybe I should proofread my posts more carefully.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I actually tend to write other people’s comments carefully before I reply. Everyone should.

That would create interesting threads

I guess I just didn’t understand your logic. Why would believe someone would use equipment that cost a factor 1k? 1M? more than already existing and good enough equipment exist? (considering LPV is good enough, which isn’t a given).

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

Well, what part of “It was the first augmented GPS approach system in use commercially anywhere, and is now virtually obsolete, only used by Widerøe” did you not understand?

You did not write that until after I had already said that I could understand the point of having GLS if it predated LPV. I actually tend to write other people’s comments carefully before I reply. Everyone should.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Well, what part of “It was the first augmented GPS approach system in use commercially anywhere, and is now virtually obsolete, only used by Widerøe” did you not understand? The only reason they installed it was the only alternative to ILS, which could not be used. If they could use LPV (as they can today), then why on earth would they install a one off system, at a very substantial cost I would think, that became obsolete a few years later?

In hindsight, it helped them keep Danish Air Transport off their back, so it could very well be it has payed back the cost many times over

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

The point is that on these airports it is impossible to install ILS due to terrain.

Are you deliberately missing my point? I have written several times that I see no point with the GLS at Namsos unless it was there before the LPV which apparently it was. I am very much aware of the siting requirements for ILS GP antennas which can make ILS installations impossible in some places. (This was the rationale for introducing MLS, but it never really caught on and while we have GPS it never will.)

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 10 Nov 13:39
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

I don’t see much point in having GLS

The point is that on these airports it is impossible to install ILS due to terrain. Back then, late 90s, there were no LPV, at least not commercially available. So they made this GLS (SCAT-1 is the real name), which seemed more promising at the time. The system was already obsolete, more or less, at the time of installation because much the same procedures could be made, much cheaper using RNAV approaches. This is what has happened. SCAT-1 is still better, but much more expensive, and all development has stopped. SCAT-1 itself is as accurate as it gets, but surrounding terrain is still the limiting factor for safety of those approaches, especially the slope of climb (I would think). Those LPV approaches are relatively new and came after the GLS approaches.

Problems occurred when DAT (Danish Air Transport) also wanted to fly these routes. They couldn’t get hold of the needed equipment, and managed to make a case through EU against Widerøe. https://www.aftenposten.no/okonomi/i/kaGAgj/esa-mener-at-wideroee-har-brutt-konkurranseregler I don’t know what has come out of this, but Widerøe is still flying all the routes and I have seen nothing about DAT since in the news. Lots about this from 2012-2014,

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

GBAS is currently CAT 1 equivalent only as well as SBAS. According to some folks, there is no way to go into CATII/III equivalent with SBAS, only GBAS will allow it. Other people as confident SBAS can do better, make your own judgment. Cost of GBAS ground station is slightly above than the single ILS installation – but can serve multiple runways at a given airport. CAT I GBAS installations are not as wide as expected so CAT II/III GBAS is not expected anytime soon.

LKKU, LKTB
74 Posts
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