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TKS ice protection for a TB20

Can I ask what the total price tag is on that now ? If you don’t mind ?

Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

About USD 23k, plus import VAT.

That does not include the propeller TKS parts which I already had. I don’t know how much those would be – maybe a few k.

Shipping is a few hundred USD but CAV kindly shipped it for free, since the delivery time slipped by so many months.

So the installed quotes I had seen of €55k+VAT are rather on the high side, especially as the company in question (in Germany) is the only official European dealer for CAV and they get a dealer discount on the parts!

OTOH almost no owner will want to retrofit this. The complexity is probably 2x bigger than say the Ryan/Avidyne TAS system (and most installers can’t manage that one – even some EASA145 companies with all the approvals). You need either a really competent shop, or the ability to work closely with a freelance installer and manage it that way. Most would much rather sell their plane and buy one with TKS already on it. A lot of TB20/21 owners sold up and bought an SR22 partly for this reason (the BRS being the other one).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Finally started the job today.

As expected, it does require a lot of organisation and a fair bit of common sense and metal-banging skills. It’s going to be interesting how long it will take. I will write it up eventually…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter,
I will not need your reservoir as we talked about. … I rather bought a TB20..GT with prop deice :) sn/2220. XMAS gift for myself. Good luck with the installation .
Zsolt

Zsolt Szüle
LHTL, Hungary

OK, Zsolt. It makes sense. You would have had to obtain the rest of the prop TKS parts e.g. the slinger ring, and I recall somebody trying to obtain them (had to be via Socata because he could not get them from CAV for some reason) and spent many months tearing his hair out. I don’t know the outcome or even who it was. I think he got them in the end.

I also know of a European pilot who got his maintenance company to fabricate the prop TKS bottle and pump (the pump was an off the shelf medical peristaltic pump, with the right flow rate). It was an EASA-reg. I completely agree with the company’s creative and useful interpretation of the regs but pretty obviously he’s not going to write about it

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The installation is coming along.

The pump module

The filler hole

The fluid tank cut-out, before reinforcement

The GT has a larger battery box…

The control unit in its typical European location under the LH yoke (in the USA they remove the ADF and put it there). I will post a pic when done. It was extremely tight, with a practically inaccessible thick wire harness in that area (might be GT specific).

This installation is definitely not recommended for any “normal” maintenance facility. You have to read the drawings, think, talk about it, read them again, and then proceed very carefully. Photos I got from one previous installation were hugely useful but they also show that the installer had difficulties.

The prop TKS fluid container, pump and control unit have been extracted and I will be selling them.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Looking good !
I am not sure if the design has changed over the years, I saw a few KG102 get fried due to tks fluid ,they were mounted under the filler cap .
During flight (turbulence,(luggage on the tank ??)) TKS fluid was spilled over the KG102 (not during filling the tank)
I know one who put a plastic bag around his KG102.
maybe it’s something to look into.

Good luck with the modification.

Yes I spotted that problem. As the filler door design stands, rain will get in (on the ground and more when flying) and this runs down into the rear cavity of the airframe, from where it may exit via drain holes – which were not intended for a lot of water. The KG102 (SG102 AHRS in my case) is as you say right there.

We hope to solve this issue by sealing all around the relevant mating surfaces with PR1422, so that any water runs back out at the places shown

If this doesn’t work we will put a “gutter” on the inside surface of the skin, with a tube running somewhere…

You actually get the same issue in the engine compartment of most planes, where loads of water runs in via the oil filler door and ends up on the engine, but the engine gets soaked when flying in rain so nobody worries about it

Luggage on top of the fluid tank should not matter at all. The tank is sitting in a very stiff structure and the top surface is stiff (you could stand on it easily) and on top of it is a cover sheet of 1mm aluminium. However there is a real issue which another owner has found: the tank filler tube, about 2.5cm diameter, has a constriction at its base (where it joins into the fluid tank) down to about 1cm diameter. This severely limits the rate at which you can fill it, and if filling as most would with a funnel, from a TKS drum / jerry can, it is very easy to get big spillages which then run into the inside of the airframe. You are happily filling the tank and suddenly a load of fluid shoots back into your face. My solution would be to make a simple electric pump which transfers the stuff through a thin tube, and which has a liquid level switch at the bottom so it stops when the tank is full. That would also save one having to lift the drum, which is really heavy (too heavy to lift high enough off the ground while manipulating the funnel).

The TB TKS design is almost 30 years old. Many of the parts supplied were 10-20 years old; the rest were brand new and made to order. The overall standard is good – with some exceptions…

One untidy aspect is the way the fluid tank upper surface is 4mm above the floor of the luggage compartment. This is then covered with the existing carpet and will obviously look a bit crappy. My plan is to get some 4mm lightweight insulation sheet, cut to shape, and lay it on the floor around the tank, to produce a level surface. The issue could have been solved with more complicated metalwork (to sink it 4mm lower) but I suspect there isn’t that much clearance underneath the tank to play with!

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Next bit done

A lot of work – the control unit was frankly not designed to be mounted anywhere. The enclosure is constructed from bits of metal riveted together and the rivets stick out from behind the front panel portion, so you have to drill out holes in the mounting surface to accommodate these protrusions.

Everything is now wired up. The system comes with a ready-made harness but it is not directly usable because

  • it was tied up with cable ties, making it impossible to run through small holes (and in the TB20 the holes are already very tight)
  • it is hard to imagine an installation in which it will be the right length, or even too long
  • it is all unshielded, which I consider imprudent for the fluid level sensor wires (considering the long history of e.g. oil pressure gauges suddenly dropping when a transmission is made on certain VHF frequencies )

Next task is to route the fluid pipework. Many little issues there if you are to avoid chafing the tubing on sharp edges, since there is no obvious way to support most of it. One has to use a lot of p-clips to do it properly.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

A really interesting feature is the, ahem, limited serviceability of the stall warner, after you fit the TKS panel over it

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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