Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

ADL / Golze satellite weather system

A few more words on avoidance action / deviations.

The “usual” deviations are indeed 10-30 degrees to the side for between 2 and 10 minutes. This is usually no problem for ATC and is usually approved instantly. Sufficient to fly around a TCU or a small CB.

Things get more interesting when the required deviation is bigger than that. In some cases, ATC gets less cooperative in these cases and sometimes downright nasty.
I remember one case in Holland where I had to fly quite a bit further north than the airway. The initial deviation was approved but after a few minutes Amsterdam started buggging me “for how long will you need to maintain present heading”? and I responded “I gues quite a while”.
Just a few minutes later he came back “please advise when able to turn back to SPY again”.
I told him once again that I would need to maintain the heading for now and let him know through my voice that didn’t want to be bothered any more…

What always helps is to let ATC know early on what tye of avoidance you expect. If it’s a bigger one, say something like “it looks like we need to fly further north than our cleared routing, roughly via [insert VORs or major airports]”.

When it gets really interesting is when that deviation requires you to fly through a secor or even a different country, whose controllers don’t even have your flightplan. Some units don’t like accepting such flights at all.

Therefore, in this case, again, let ATC know well in advance and say “it looks like we need to deviate to the north substantially, via xy and yz,… so…, please inform the adjacent sectors about our requested routing”.

Never get yourself in trouble in order to please ATC. Do what is required. The rest is their problem to sort out. That’s what they’re paid for.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 04 Jul 17:17
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

A small additional point – getting a rerouting through the same countries as planned is easier than getting one taking you into another one. So in the little image you posted above, it looks like going via Switzerland is a better option, but I’d give ATC at least 10 minutes to sort that out…

The funniest experience with weather avoidance was when I was a bit green using radar – I was flying towards Belgium from Dover, saw a yellow echo ahead and asked for 20 degrees left to avoid. As I went past that single CB there appeared a line of thunderstorms in the distance so I kept my heading, ATC asked me to advise when able to turn right again, to which I replied “Wilco”… Damn, there is really a BAD line of CBs over the Belgian coast, didn’t really expect that from the forecast – hold on – coast??? Tilting the radar up by a few degrees and all was clear – I had avoided the coastal echo and would have ended up in the Netherlands and flying towards Denmark! Slightly embarrassed I asked for direct LNO…

All the weather avoidance thingies have their gotchas, I’d love to have all three (ADL for big-picture avoidance, Radar to go through a weak front, and stormscope…. um, just because.)

Last Edited by Cobalt at 04 Jul 18:15
Biggin Hill

All the weather avoidance thingies have their gotchas, I’d love to have all three (ADL for big-picture avoidance, Radar to go through a weak front, and stormscope…. um, just because.)

That is the best combination tbh. I use the ADL to review the Terminal area weather or enroute if crossing a front. Radar only for tactical avoidance assisted by stormscope.

Last Edited by JasonC at 04 Jul 19:43
EGTK Oxford

the ADL120 may never be used to penetrate weather.

IMHO that is a standard disclaimer.

For example, Socata were forced by the DGAC to disconnect the heading input to the WX500 stormscope, on the grounds that it might be used to avoid storms! So, Socata put in a handy connector for it and the various Socata dealers just quietly plugged the heading back in when they sold the planes

If I ran an aviation weather website I would put in a disclaimer saying it must not be used for flying, or anything else (that is actually the disclaimer on a private wx site I have).

Yeah, radar is better but how much do you have to pay to get radar? I suppose there are deiced twins (radar makes little sense without full de-ice, because it implies flying in IMC with embedded and serious convective wx) with radar in the nose. But being able to get tafs and metars is IMHO more useful for European touring, because most IFR is done VMC on top and this data enables intelligent diversion decisions to be made well ahead.

I may well get the ADL120 sometime. It’s a neat solution and is the cheapest product to run of all the Iridium based boxes.

Regarding working with ATC, you must never let them take over your decisionmaking when it comes to anything important. For example if flying a non deiced plane and you have to turn 30 deg avoid some convective tops, and they make more and more fuss, just say “unable to comply due weather”. Repeat the phrase as often as necessary. They go home at 5 for their dinner, while you might be dead. I’ve once had French ATC near Biarritz make a massive and worsening fuss, saying some military commander is getting very upset, then saying he was getting extremely upset, blah blah, while I was at FL190, just able to skim the tops and avoiding others. The “military commander” was prob99 just doing the equivalent of a company department spending its annual budget before Dec 31, because if they don’t spend it, it will be cut back next year. The military do that all the time, in peacetime, and in wartime GA would be banned anyway

Last Edited by Peter at 04 Jul 20:48
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I suppose there are deiced twins (radar makes little sense without full de-ice, because it implies flying in IMC with embedded and serious convective wx) with radar in the nose. But being able to get tafs and metars is IMHO more useful for European touring, because most IFR is done VMC on top and this data enables intelligent diversion decisions to be made well ahead.

Peter surely you know it is PA46 up that have RADAR including TBM700+.

Being able to get TAFs and METARs is very useful but so is RADAR.

I don’t agree that most IFR is done VMC on top. A lot in terminal areas can depend on good radar particular if you don’t want to divert all the time.

EGTK Oxford

Yeah, radar is better but how much do you have to pay to get radar?

Nothing. It is included in the purchase price of the piston twin, which is pretty much scrap value these days…

But being able to get tafs and metars is IMHO more useful for European touring, because most IFR is done VMC on top and this data enables intelligent diversion decisions to be made well ahead.

I never felt a real need for METARs and TAFS en-route in the de-iced/radar equipped twin scenario. The things that keep me from completing the flight are primarily well-developed convective fronts that block the route, and very low cloud/fog around the destination; with reasonable alternate starting the diversion when you get the ATIS is not much of a problem. METARs/TAFs are nice to have, though, and it beats listening to VOLMET… (does VHF Volmet even exist these days? didn’t tune into one for a decade or so)

Last Edited by Cobalt at 04 Jul 20:57
Biggin Hill

does VHF Volmet even exist these days?

What is Volmet?

EGTK Oxford

Sure an old shagged piston twin will be the cheapest way to get a “radar” but do you really want to be flying one of those in the appropriate conditions?

You want all systems to be working before doing that sort of thing – unless you are getting paid for it

The debate about VMC enroute would run on and on

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Sure, VOLMET does still exist. I still use it regularly when enroute and say 150-200 miles from destination (too far to pick up an ATIS) just to get a first idea of the weather in the area of my destination.

I would call VOLMET “the poor man’s ADL”.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 04 Jul 21:14
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

@Lenthamen ..

Use the adl the way it was intended and it is a supertool.

Before flying .. Check the expected vertical buildups with Ogimet and router.euroga.com. It may well be that your adl shows bad weather and you are in the sunshine above.. If in imc respect the colors! A wild patch with yellow quickly turning to orange red I will circumnavigate. A large patch with yellow green and some orange .. If you stay well clear of the orange and red you should be fine.

Definitely also download strikes .. No need to explain that. Winds aloft are great as well.

With version 4 you can now also download on the ground with wifi or 4g.

On a nice day I will download once and let it be. With some weather around I will download as required. With real weather around I set it to automatic. Be aware that the information can be up to 15 minutes old and weather moves..

Its the best product which has come out for any ga ifr pilot and it should be on anybodies must have list .. If you fly ifr.

I prefer the ipad to the small display. Not Connecting it to my 530/430 I have not found a hassle at all.

Combining the adl120 with real info from a stormscope and a weatherradar is best but mostly not feasible. The adl120 sure is!

Last Edited by Commander at 05 Jul 07:29
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top