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Euro reg to N reg transfer / FAA DAR discussion

I have a feeling we are in a real vacuum situation regarding FCL008.

Has anybody an idea when this more relaxed IR third country stuff will be approved for the EIR and IR a la Europeen....I hope it didn't go into bowl of cryogenic gas..?;-) Currently it's still 100 Hrs PIC under IFR + Skill test....

Anyway for me going N seems still be viable option given time frames of implementation 201X...so here comes the technical question related to potential N aircraft ownership...

It looks like the number of FAA DAR's in Europe is drying up and prices are skyrocketing as these people are working on independent basis.....?

Looking at the various options to still fly N reg legally with FAA IRA (for a couple of years until EASA has sorted out there business regarding third country licenses and have introduced the EASA EIR (25 Hrs IFR ) and IR (50 Hrs reading the draft proposals)

1) Do you need a FAA DAR when shipping an aircraft in a container from US to Europe re-assemble it to make it airworthy. N reg kept change from ownership through a trust?

2) In order to make an FAA Export Certificate (e.g. after 2015 to make it EASA) it requires a DAR I assume..?

3) I have heard prices of over 4500 euro only for the DAR , is this correct?

4) Knowing the EASA system rather well how does this work on a N aircraft Suppose I buy tip tanks they are FAA STC'd I let an EASA 145 company install the tanks (do the work, I assume then an FAA IA has to sign it off in order to make it airworthy..?

thanks

EBST

Has anybody an idea when this more relaxed IR third country stuff will be approved for the EIR and IR a la Europeen....I hope it didn't go into bowl of cryogenic gas..?;-)

Nobody I know

It looks like the number of FAA DAR's in Europe is drying up and prices are skyrocketing as these people are working on independent basis.....?

I know a good one, based in Switzerland and he even flies a Mooney (which is forgiveable if he's really good )

1) Do you need a FAA DAR when shipping an aircraft in a container from US to Europe re-assemble it to make it airworthy.

No. An A&P/IA can sign the release to service.

N reg kept change from ownership through a trust?

Doesn't need a DAR. Just transfer the plane to a trust.

2) In order to make an FAA Export Certificate (e.g. after 2015 to make it EASA) it requires a DAR I assume..?

I think you do need a DAR to do an Export CofA (an 8130-4) but I have seen this only on components such as propellers or engines, where a US DAR signs the 8130-4 for about $400. My TB20 went G to N without an Export CofA, using a route described in my writeup. Also I heard that the FAA no longer issues the 8130-4; maybe that is only for components.

But why move to EASA reg? There is no need, unless you are selling and the buyer has "preferences" etc. in which case I would suggest finding a smarter buyer.

The problem is the never ending folklore about N-regs being banned in Europe, etc. This is nonsense. EASA has not imposed long term parking limits (the only control that is possible) on foreign reg planes, and I do not believe they will because it would be so very difficult to enforce, and there are some quite obvious avoidance techniques. The 3rd world mostly does this, because nearly all of it is thoroughly corrupt, and they control it essentially by increasing the size of bribes necessary to get landing permits etc until you "get the message".

3) I have heard prices of over 4500 euro only for the DAR , is this correct?

I am not up to date but I paid £1300 in 2005. Email me for the contact I have. In fact I have two, but I am not sure if the other (who did mine in 2005) is still working.

4) Knowing the EASA system rather well how does this work on a N aircraft Suppose I buy tip tanks they are FAA STC'd I let an EASA 145 company install the tanks (do the work, I assume then an FAA IA has to sign it off in order to make it airworthy..?

Yes.

Assuming it actually is a Major Alteration (the fact that the part comes with an STC does not mean it is Major - see the never ending "controversy" re Gill v. Concorde batteries for a fine example) then you fill in a Form 337, the STC acts as Approved Data for the 337, the IA checks the finished installation for conformance to the STC (and that any ancillary structural work, not covered by the STC, is IAW AC43.13 etc), signs the 337, and mails the 337 to AFS-750 in Oklahoma.

If the company is an FAA 145 Repair Station then they sign the 337; no IA is required.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

If you plan on installing TIP tanks, why not buy an airplane located in the US, add the tips if necessary and have it flown across the pond? If you are looking for a Bonanza, I am an expert and can assist in purchases as a buyers agent. If you are interested, you can contact me via email.

An A36 with tips has a range of over 1000 NM with reserves.

KUZA, United States

Thanks Peter I will drop you a PM to get the details on the Swiss Mooney DAR pilot..;-)

EBST

If you plan on installing TIP tanks, why not buy an airplane located in the US, add the tips if necessary and have it flown across the pond? If you are looking for a Bonanza, I am an expert and can assist in purchases as a buyers agent. If you are interested, you can contact me via email.

An A36 with tips has a range of over 1000 NM with reserves.<

Thanks, I have considered that but it looks like flying across the pond will set me up more then 25K$ including the risks. This maybe a solution for a recent A36 or Malibu but for the older birds it too cost prohibitive I think,..maybe I am wrong... Shipping can be done for less then 10K$ ....Containers are cheap ..;-)

EBST

But why move to EASA reg? There is no need, unless you are selling and the buyer has "preferences" etc. in which case I would suggest finding a smarter buyer.<

Well in some places of Europe (Eastern) FAA IA are not found and this would involve paying up for transportation costs etc....

The problem is the never ending folklore about N-regs being banned in Europe, etc. This is nonsense. EASA has not imposed long term parking limits (the only control that is possible) on foreign reg planes, and I do not believe they will because it would be so very difficult to enforce, and there are some quite obvious avoidance techniques. The 3rd world mostly does this, because nearly all of it is thoroughly corrupt, and they control it essentially by increasing the size of bribes necessary to get landing permits etc until you "get the message".<

Though I believe that the number of FAA IA's etc is declining in Europe making it more and more expensive (maybe I am wrong). A lot of these IA's got there FAA approvals through the good old days when working for the airlines EASA 66 has not contributed to make mechanics dual qualified ...it has become very complex to maintain EASA B2, B1 qualifications I think...

EBST

Well in some places of Europe (Eastern) FAA IA are not found

I can think of at least two IAs who travel more or less anywhere. One UK one does / used to go to Greece regularly, for example. Very cheap, on cheap airlines.

You are probably right about becoming an IA.

Becoming an A&P is easy, but AIUI to become an IA you more or less have to do it in the USA now. Afterwards you can work anywhere in the world.

Becoming an FAA Part 145 Repair Station is now very restricted (dead man's shoes, unless you have connections) but that isn't relevant to GA.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I can think of at least two IAs who travel more or less anywhere. One UK one does / used to go to Greece regularly, for example. Very cheap, on cheap airlines <

Let me know privately how cheap cheap they are...;), I stay N then..;), more options to get those nice boxes inside the airframe without all the EASA Yahooos...;)

Becoming an FAA Part 145 Repair Station is now very restricted (dead man's shoes, unless you have connections) but that isn't relevant to GA. <

Yes, just found out that another FAA approved 145 repair station has closed in my country...I think it's about time they start doing something about all this on both sides of the Atlantic...Btw EASA is looking for a relaxed B2L qualification this may open some business opportunities for the inclined experts...

EBST

The FAA publish a list of DARs Europe.

http://www.faa.gov/about/officeorg/fieldoffices/ifo/fra_ifo/media/DAR%20IFO%20Listing.pdf

FAR Part 145 Repair Stations are very relevant to GA if you want to fly IFR and be legal as only a repair station can carry out the transponder and atlimeter checks. Far from being deadman's shoes, no new applications for Repair Stations outside the USA are being processed. This has been the case for several years due to "issues" with the TSA.

For both A&P and IA training, it is best to go to the USA.

That' a very good point about the altimeter checks.

But, I have found since I went N-reg in 2005, this is not a huge issue in the grand scheme of aircraft ownership, done every 2 years. It costs in the region of £200 (sometimes billed as ~ £60 per instrument checked so if you have 2 altimeters and a transponder it comes to £180) plus another £200 or so if they have to drive to your airport.

I normally get the ASI checked at the same time, even though this is not required.

Not sure that no new repair stations are appearing. I have just heard of one company in the Midlands which is getting it. But they are a type of company who I would expect have very good connections in the USA, due to the business they are in.

Thanks for the DAR list. Very interesting too. Two of them I know.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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