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GTX330, GNS530 and traffic information

Mode S TIS needs a mode S transponder with the software that supports receiving Mode S TIS. The standard software for the Garmin GTX330 supports it, but the European version of the transponder, the GTX328 does not. The Trig Mode S transponders support the TIS capability. On the radar site side, here in the US, the ASR 7,8, or 9 radars support it, but the FAA was unwilling to add the support for the ASR 11 radars. The typical coverage is appproximately a 60 NM radius around the radar site. See http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/air_traffic/tis.html and http://www8.garmin.com/aviation/tis.jsp.

Mode S TIS is often confused with ADSB TISB, but they are quite different. The original data comes from the same source, radar detected traffic, but TIS is quite crude in comparison to TISB and TIS is addressed to a single aircraft on 1030 MHz by the mode S radar whereas TISB is broadcast to all aircraft by an ADSB ground station and anyone with a 1090 MHz receiver can receive them. I will be surprised if either technology makes it outside of the US. ADSB will be available outside of the US, but I doubt that the TISB component will.

KUZA, United States

What is the hardware used to receive Mode S TIS?

GTX330 receives TIS and then transfers it to GNS. As I remeber GTX setup there's setting for voice messages that includes traffic alert. IMO that means even if you don't display TIS you'll get sound warning on traffic.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

What is the hardware used to receive Mode S TIS?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Mode S TIS has nothing to do with ADSB or 1090ES. A transponder does not have a receiver capable of receiving 1090MHz, its receiver is on 1030 MHz. The mode S permits the use of a two way communication link using these two frequencies. Up to 4 message exchanges can occur as the antenna sweeps past the azimuth of the aircraft. Each message from the ground radar can encode two targets in a few more than 20 bits each. The target data is position up to 7 NM, relative altitude, vector direction of the target, indication of climb and descent, and relative azimuth of the target. That is a lot of stuff to encode in so few number of bits, so the resolution is crude. It is available on ASR 7, 8, and 9 mode S radar systems at a little over 100 locations in the US. The data is passed to the GNS series of GPS units for display. I haven't heard of it being implemented outside of some areas in the US.

KUZA, United States

Is'nt the collective term for this also known as ADS-B ? I have a GTX330 and a GNS430, but I cant see traffic because whats needed is the rollout of ADS-B. Is that right?

It's all related. If you google on e.g.
1090ES TIS
you can fill your boots with reading material.

My understanding is this:

ADS-B uses the same 1090ES data channel as TIS.
ADS-B is a continuous transmission of your position and altitude, several times per second.
ADS-B transmission (ADS-B out) is supported by some transponders; I believe a current GTX330 will do it.

But to receive ADS-B you need an ADS-B in capability, which is not the same as ADS-B out. Plus you need something to display the stuff on...

My goode olde 1990s hardware is not compatible with ADS-B (except I do have the GTX330 itself, from 2005) so I tend to skim this stuff, but it is a hot topic in the USA where the FAA is mandating ADS-B out from 2020, or something like that. Then, anybody with ADS-B in (and a compatible MFD) will get traffic info, which won't need any ground support - just like FLARM except almost nobody uses FLARM.

In Europe, it is virtually certain that VFR traffic OCAS will be exempted from any ADS-B mandate, just like they are mostly exempted from Mode S, so IMHO the value of ADS-B as "TCAS" will be poor.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

There may also be a config option to enable it.

EGTK Oxford

I am no expert on this (doesn't stop me posting does it ) but AIUI Mode S traffic is implemented via 1090ES (the 1090MHz extended squitter data channel implemented in Mode S packets) whereby the ground station, which obviously knows its traffic picture because that is the SSR radar station itself, transmits the coordinates of each radar target (perhaps with some filtering of stuff they don't want you to see) up the 1090ES channel, so everybody with a Mode S transponder, connected to a compatible multifunction display, gets a copy of the traffic.

Is'nt the collective term for this also known as ADS-B ? I have a GTX330 and a GNS430, but I cant see traffic because whats needed is the rollout of ADS-B. Is that right?

Are you sure those traffic targets were not lightning discharges from the stormscope?

This one made my day

BTW I don't have stormscope attached to GNS - I have separate WX1000 with its own screen.

What would suprise me more is that it actually worked at all, given that the (European, presumably) installer would have had no way to test it. The chance of something like this "just working", given the installer config that needs to be done just-right in both the GTX330 and the MFD, is IMHO close to zilch.

AFAIK It's just about connecting GTX330 to GNS530 with proper cable and configuring communication protocol on both devices.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

But what is the mechanism by which it could receive traffic info?

I am no expert on this (doesn't stop me posting does it ) but AIUI Mode S traffic is implemented via 1090ES (the 1090MHz extended squitter data channel implemented in Mode S packets) whereby the ground station, which obviously knows its traffic picture because that is the SSR radar station itself, transmits the coordinates of each radar target (perhaps with some filtering of stuff they don't want you to see) up the 1090ES channel, so everybody with a Mode S transponder, connected to a compatible multifunction display, gets a copy of the traffic.

At least that is what they get in the USA, in the areas where this was implemented.

The Americans provided TIS as a carrot to Mode S adoption, whereas in Europe there is no need for carrots - you just introduce a law

To provide TIS, the ground station needs to spend a bit of money on hardware and software. It's all off the shelf stuff. I don't know the cost, but very vaguely recall it is in the region of low 6 digits, max.

It wasn't done in the UK, but maybe somebody in Europe did buy the equipment...?

Are you sure those traffic targets were not lightning discharges from the stormscope?

The symbols should be clearly different. Normally, on my KMD550 anyway, lightning shows as crosses when in the stormscope screen and as lightning symbols when in the map screen.

What would suprise me more is that it actually worked at all, given that the (European, presumably) installer would have had no way to test it. The chance of something like this "just working", given the installer config that needs to be done just-right in both the GTX330 and the MFD, is IMHO close to zilch.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Are you sure those traffic targets were not lightning discharges from the stormscope?

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