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How can water get into the tanks?

In LFMD, in winter when weather is prone to moisture and temps low, I sometimes have water in the tank on the morning. We may have 20°C in the sunny afternoon and ~0C during the night. So I would say, I believe in socata’s words… conditions are high temperature variation and high % of humidity.

Last Edited by greg_mp at 18 Feb 18:01
LFMD, France

Apparently even SOCATA engineers believed in condensation

THY
EKRK, Denmark

Nothing to add, except we recently started finding significant water in the RH fuel tank (only) of our group C172, after years of finding nothing. (In a C172 the RH tank is the one furthest from the atmosphere, as the fuel vent is into the LH tank).

We could only think of three explanations:

1) The UK weather has changed (so why RH only?)
2) The physical chemistry of air and water has changed (exciting, if true)
3) We might have a leaking filler cap.

For now, we are going with 3 :-)

White Waltham EGLM, United Kingdom

Avgas can hold about 0.1% water; anything beyond that condenses out.

I am pretty sure all cases of significant amounts of water in fuel is either due to perished filler cap seals or due to some unusual storage situations where humid air condenses and gets forced into the tank.

@DavidS would always come in with excellent analysis

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In 2000, the first year we owned our current Jodel DR1050, the Syndicate as usual went for the weekend to the Glenforsa Fly-in. It rained. We were using 4* leaded mogas. The front tank was O.K. but the rear tank, whose filler is on the vertical side of the fuselage, drained yellow blobs in the fuel.
I took a sample to an ex-oil industry chemist, and he suggested some kind of alcohol. After several months in the sealed tube, at room temperature, the blobs disappeared.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

I’ve operated the same PA-28 and C-172 for a good many years (and 2500 Hrs flying) and never seen any water in the fuel, ever. During that time I’ve had the actual caps replaced at least twice due to wear and weak springs, and the seals numerous times. Yet fuel in water stories persist with other aircraft.

The PA-28 and C-172 caps sit proud of the wing. Other types have them recessed for aerodynamic reasons and can pool water. Any seal will leak over time, so maybe that’s the true explanation?

Ref fuel streaming from the wing, not on the PA-28 with full tanks. Don’t ask how I know that!

EGBW / KPRC, United Kingdom

Quote
Condensation can DEFINITELY form inside all metal fuel tanks.
bq. Quote

I agree but it takes the right conditions to form. The risk factors here include leaving an almost empty sun heated tank outside where potencially humid air inside the tank will condense to water droplets on large temperature drops overnight and collect at the bottom of the tank as a water pool. Parking inside a hangar with more stabile ambient atmosphere should take care of the problem and if parking outside make sure the tanks are full.

A leaking fuel tank filler cap in rain can contribute to very large amounts of water, but water should not enter in flight as the low pressure on top of the wing sucks out from the tank if any leakage. A leaking filler cap with a full tank will create a nice fuelspray over the wing.

Last Edited by THY at 08 Feb 14:01
THY
EKRK, Denmark

aart wrote:

Wondering how this works with cars though.

Good question. I am no expert but on all automotive petrol engines of recent times, unless the amount of water is enough to displace most of the fuel being pumped, a quantity of water pumped into the induction together with fuel will cause a lean mixture which will be immediately detected by the exhaust sensor and result in an increased amount of fuel being injected, correcting the problem and becoming unnoticed. I think it would only be noticeable at the high-end of the FF range (where all flow capacity of the system is exhausted and there is little room to correct) which is little used in normal driving anyway.

Most large aircraft have fuel tank recirculation systems to ensure water accumulation is minimized as well as melted, but still require periodic draining.

On a light aircraft, however, even if you had an electronic fuel injection, you would notice a lack of power and a lean mixture at take-off, as a minimum. Perhaps in cruise with lean mixture it would be able to compensate like cars. On more typical aircraft with mechanical injection, or carburetor, where mixture could be manually adjusted to compensate, at least in cruise, the problem would be that the ratio of water-to-fuel would not be constant and you would not be able to manually correct so quickly, resulting in a rough running engine if you are lucky, or a stoppage if not. If that happens in flight at altitude and the aircraft is injected, and switching tanks does not fix it, I would just keep on pumping fuel/water into the engine using available pumps in an effort to get rid of all the water and try to recover the fuel supply, but, question for the group, how would you be able to tell that is your actual problem?

Antonio
LESB, Spain

Now flying a Rotax, i do get some water. Matter of a few drops only. Fuel caps are fine, aircraft hangared, no flying through rain. So it comes from the fuel, in my case Euro95. I’m going to do some experimenting, filling one tank with a funnel that filters out water and the other without, and seeing whether Euro98 makes a difference.

I’m not too worried about a few drops though The fuel pick up point is higher than the drain point, and then there is the gascolator. Very unlikely that a significant qty of water gets to the the carbs i guess.

Wondering how this works with cars though. No manual draining ever and would this not lead to an accumulation of water in the tank over time? Maybe the tank or engine has a more sophisticated water separator and which does the draining continously?

Private field, Mallorca, Spain

I would be very mindful of the water drains when flying diesel engined aircraft.

I am, also because Thielert people warned me that the fuel pump(s) really hate water. I have also heard that you can count on getting water along with with jet fuel. Assuming that it is not Perrier, could that be the reason why it is cheaper than Avgas?

I must have been extremely lucky. No water at all in 8 years flying Diesels.

Private field, Mallorca, Spain
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