Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Basic GNS530 VFR to IFR upgrade in N reg aircraft

Has anyone in europe actually completed this process for a N reg aircraft without upgrading to WAAS version?

Any direction to personnel or organisation who can do this?

Have seen/ received lots of proposals ranging from and including “not possible in europe” to “the AFMS has to be submitted to the convening authority where the aircraft is resident i.e. if in UK to the UK CAA”

From a technical view your installation should meet the IFR requirements, which are a little more strict than the VFR installations. Most installation will meet the IFR as standard.

And you should have the FAA GNS 530 IFR AFMS. I am no A&P so I am not sure how this allready FAA approved IFR AFMS is accepted. I can discuss with the A&P / IA I use to do work on N reg. @Michael on this forum is an A&P / IA he might be able to answer the paperwork side of this question as well.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ

I would have a read of this.

If you have an N-reg aircraft then you should have an FAA approved flight manual for the aircraft (POH in Euro-speak) and in there should be an AFMS (flight manual supplement) for the GNS530 which authorises IFR operations, specifically enroute (including RNAV1) and GPS approaches.

Have seen/ received lots of proposals ranging from and including “not possible in europe” to “the AFMS has to be submitted to the convening authority where the aircraft is resident i.e. if in UK to the UK CAA”

You have been told total bollox, but that doesn’t surprise me since two of UK’s biggest avionics shops were unable to do it either…

As described in the above article, you need to get hold of the AFMS, if you don’t already have it. It needs to be FAA approved. For the KLN94, there was no STC for the installation so it had to be done as a Field Approval. Any AFMS is a Major Alteration (there may be exceptions but I have never heard of any) and if there is no STC, the Field Approval route is the only one, and it is difficult for Europe based pilots.

I have been digging through my avionics manuals collection and found a 2002-dated AFMS for the GNS430 in a PA32, so it looks like there was an STC back then, for the PA32. I have a 2009-dated GNS530 installation manual (IM) in the back of which again is an STC for a PA32. So unless you are flying a PA32, it looks like you are in for the Field Approval route.

Also none of the manuals I have contain a sample AFMS. You may need to get this from another GNS530 owner, edit the tail number and get it approved.

So the first thing I would do is look in the POH and see if there is an AFMS in there. If there is, you are done. If there isn’t… what plane is this? If it is a “normally IFR flown” type then one could ask a rhetorical question about who was taking the p1ss when selling it… or maybe the GNS530 was retrofitted by a cowboy, for a customer who didn’t know one needs this paperwork.

Socata were doing the same in 2002, hence the linked article. The curious thing is that they were also selling TB20GTs with a GNS430/GNS530 combination and I wonder what AFMS (if any) the customers got with those? The French (DGAC) AFMS authorised BRNAV (enroute) only, no GPS approaches.

NCYankee here is the expert…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

As Jesse said, there in fact is very little difference but the devil is in the details !

So the real question is: What makes Garmin’s WAAS version of the GNS different from it’s predecessor (besides the obvious WAAS functions) ?

Answer: The STC !

When Garmin applied for the STC for the original GNS series they did not bother to certify it for a long list of aircraft, so there is no AML (Approved Model List)

Rather, the original GNS STC is for a Piper PA-32 , so unless you have a Saratoga, you will need to seek a Field Approval from the FAA to install it on aircraft other than a PA32, That said, about 10 years ago, the FAA came out with a Advisory Circular that said if the GPS was used for VFR only, then no Field Approval was necessary.

So if you are in the States, you just aplly for a Field Approval for your Specific Model aircraft and for good measure show a copy of a previously accepted Field Approval for the same typ acft and generally, the FSDO will accept it and you’re good to go.

The problem over here, outside of the US of A is there is no “local” FSDO so you will need to use plan “B” , get a DER (Designated Engineering Representative) to “Approve” the modification. You could also attempt to find an FSDO that approves the request despite not being “local” to that FSDO, our host has experience with this and wrote about it here :

I had a recent and similar situation that was handled by a DER in the US for about $300 .

FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

Damn it, Peter beat me to it !

FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

That is really interesting, Michael. I have been told that DERs can generate AFMSs but only very few of them are authorised to do it. If you know a DER who can do that, that is priceless!

But at least you have confirmed my suspicions about the non-W boxes. However I am staggered that the N-regs that have always lived in Europe with a GNS430/530 are probably mostly not IFR approved.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Also I am staggered that the N-regs that have always lived in Europe with a GNS430/530 are probably mostly not IFR approved.

Yep, really screwed-up situation. That said, with the literally hundreds of thousands of GNS installtions in the US, you would think that a Field Approval from any FSDO would be a slam-dunk sign off.

FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

you would think that a Field Approval from any FSDO would be a slam-dunk sign off.

It probably is, but you need to find somebody willing to sit down in front of his local FSDO inspector and present the documents (337+AFMS) to him to sign. That is how my KLN94 AFMS got done – by an extremely helpful American guy who used to run an avionics shop. However I very much doubt he wants a new post-retirement career

And the West Coast FSDO guy who helped me with the AFMS for this seemingly found himself a woman in the Far East and retired out there Conclusion: women are responsible for AFMS difficulties!

The official point of contact – the NY IFU FSDO – is hopeless.

GNS530W prices on Ebay are still high. If I was having to change the box I would wait a year or so and put in an IFD540. It’s a good solution for European IFR (airway name route entry, etc).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

It probably is, but you need to find somebody willing to sit down in front of his local FSDO inspector and present the documents (337+AFMS) to him to sign.

I think one might be able to get this done via the post.

Peter wrote:

The official point of contact – the NY IFU FSDO – is hopeless.

No comment (Oops, is that a “comment” ? )

Peter wrote:

GNS530W prices on Ebay are still high. If I was having to change the box I would wait a year or so and put in an IFD540. It’s a good solution for European IFR (airway name route entry, etc).

Funny, I just spent an hour yesterday working-up pricing scenarios for a client that has a GNS530 now and would like to up-grade to either 530WAAS, IFD540 or GTN 750

FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

Here’s an excellent explaination about the STC AML :
FAA AML

FAA A&P/IA
LFPN
15 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top