Can anyone please help me understand the options for specifying IFR capable avionics in a new aircraft (Looking at a Robin DR401CDI 2.0s – Assume the pilots are IR(R) qualified but will eventually get a full IR.)
Many thanks for any help demystifying these rules for me :)
NealCS wrote:
options for specifying IFR capable avionics
In the US certified avionics are permanent, TSOd devices listed as min equipment for IFR flight. The GPS must have RAIM and WAAS and use an external antennae and also be permanently mounted in the aircraft and likewise TSOd as part of the min equipment for the aircraft. The Garmin 650/750 is certified regardless of what it is installed in…but sometimes you need an STC from the manufacturer to add it.
NealCS wrote:
Is certified/vs uncertified a question of the kit itself – e.g. is a Garmin GTN650 always certified or does it depend on the installation?
No, a TSO’d navigator is not enough, it must be installed according to AC20-138, and there must be an AFM section or supplement describing what is allowed and what not.
In the US certified avionics are permanent, TSOd devices listed as min equipment for IFR flight. The GPS must have RAIM and WAAS and use an external antennae and also be permanently mounted in the aircraft and likewise TSOd as part of the min equipment for the aircraft. The Garmin 650/750 is certified regardless of what it is installed in…but sometimes you need an STC from the manufacturer to add it.
That’s mostly nonsense but I am working on the plane today so can’t type up much.
Basically, non certified avionics, for IFR on an EASA CS-23 is a no go.
The equipment needs certification, the equipment / aircraft combination needs approval, the installation (work) needs to by certified engineer / company, your manual needs to be certified, and you need to be certified (IR rating if you want to use this equipment IFR).
One major drawback on Robin aircraft is that they haven’t been certified under FAA. Most equipment / aircraft STC approvals under EASA are based on FAA approvals. You won’t Find Robin / Apex / CEAPR DR-400 series on most Garmin and Aspen avionics STC, which limits the possibilities and makes it more expensive.
The new CS-STAN doesn’t offer an advantage here either. You can not expand from VFR to IFR under it, GPS systems must be limited to VFR Day online, and other avionics such as DME and ADF are only supported as upgrade from an older unit, not for a complete new installation.
A non certified IFR certified GPS can be designed as such, then you will never get it approved for IFR. It could also be due to the installation. You can use it, but you are only allowed to use it under VFR day conditions, and for “information” only. If it is an older unit, it won’t be worthwhile to try and make this IFR approved, then you would be better to upgrade to new equipment.
NealCS wrote:
Many thanks for any help demystifying these rules for me :)
Which rules ? You never stated if the aircraft in question are FAA or EASA state registered … it makes a difference !
My two pence worth……If you are spending the kind of money that a new Robin 401 costs, don’t spoil the job by skimping on the avionics. They offer a G500 setup with a GTN 650/750. To future proof your aircraft and preserve resale value that’s what you need. A VFR only aircraft at that price point is not so popular.
Fantastic aircraft choice though, I would love one.
If you are buying a new plane, try to get it factory fitted with what you want.
Otherwise, Jesse here gets very good reports 
I agree with Neil. A VFR-only plane is like a Merc without aircon.
Virtually all panel mount avionics (homebuilt gear aside) are certified i.e. they are TSO approved. Whether a given item can be installed in a given plane is a more complicated Q and there are many facets on it.
USFlyer wrote:
The GPS must have … WAAS
Indeed?
Michael wrote:
You never stated if the aircraft in question are FAA or EASA state registered … it makes a difference !
Robin / Apex / CEAPR never received FAA approval for other products then CAP 10 and R3000 as far as I am aware.
