Robin 253 IFR avionics update

The DR253 has a factory installed Baudin Crouzet autopilot which is coupled with VOR and gyro heading indicator

Is your’s working? If not, good luck finding someone who can still work on them. I have been unsuccesful so far.

Do you also have the Badin Crouzet altitude hold module installed, that was an option at least on certain airframes AFAIK?

Robin stopped manufacturing DR253 in 1972 and as far as I know never certified any kind GPS for this type of aircraft.

OK, but it is hard to believe that nobody in Europe ever installed an IFR GPS on one of these, so if one could find the avionics shop that did it…

We’ve had multiple threads here on this. Start with say the UK CAA AAN database. There is a German database too; several German pilots have posted the details. I don’t know if the DGAC has an online database but maybe IFR is not such a big deal there.

Also Garmin might have contact details, because the avionics shop may have requested their help.

An autopilot is a must for IFR, in practical terms.

The main “problem” with Robin is that most of these never been certified in the USA. Therefore none of the FAA STC contain these aircraft, and many EASA approvals are based on US approvals.

So Garmin GTN / G500 / G600, Aspen EFD’s S-TEC autopilots are all difficult on these aircraft. It is possible, but is generally expensive. The best would be to team up with a owners group, so you could share costs on a generic STC for you aircraft.

blueline wrote:

If not, good luck finding someone who can still work on them

The nice thing about autopilots of that age is that they’re transistors and discretes. All components that are fairly easy to get, or at least a very close alternative.

That said, a quick google didn’t find any maintenance manuals…

We have discussed the Crouzet autopilots here before, and I think I posted a brief info sheet which someone found (do a search).

But yes, no maintenance manuals, the company has vanished without a trace, having been absorbed into a bigger one and shut. There should be some old guy working at Crouzet (which is a French company that still exists, or at least the name does) who might know the stuff, but good luck locating him…

I think one would need a French speaker and make extensive enquiries in France.

What tends to happen with old gear is that somebody sets up an unofficial repair shop for it. For example a year or two ago I was trying to help somebody with a “2003” homebuilt which was actually knocked together over a 20-30 year period and which had some 1980s engine monitor, which was possibly duff in some way (can’t recall the details; might have been the data download wasn’t there). I found some guy in the USA who still repairs them. Unfortunately he didn’t know anything beyond swapping over boards.

Any repair would be done off the books, obviously, so this route is good for proactive owners only.

Without maintenance manuals, repairs are going to be very hard. One can look for mechanical damage (capacitors or connectors broken off) or just systematically replace every electrolytic capacitor. If that doesn’t fix it…

It doesn’t look to me like a Robin is a good route for “going forward” as they say… Everything that is not supported by the factory right now (or recently) is going to be very very painful. They are hugely popular on the French aeroclub scene but that is nearly all low level VFR. There is no critical mass of them in Europe being used for IFR or any long distance flying so probably not many Major mods sitting in avionic shops’ filing cabinets. Some UK avionics shops I know of have been charging ~5k for a Major mod design. They sell it on to other avionics shops for 1k-2k each time but they get you to pay the 5k initially.

Sad really, since there are so few planes still being made.

The first thing is the there is no future in your avionics, I would look at the cheapest option to give you a reasonable IFR aircraft would be to fit one GTN650 with a MOD from one of the normal players.

The audio panel, the #2 NAV/COM & ADF can be replaced with up to date units under CA-STAN.

The Americans are pulling out modern DME & ADF units so second hand units are avalable cheaply.

A_and_C wrote:

modern DME & ADF

Where do I find the rolling-on-the-floor-laughing-emoticon??

Colbalt

We are talking in comparative terms, the aircraft in question was fitted with a King KR85 ADF, the King KR87 is light years ahead of the KR85 with some of the later versions having a Superflag output for integration with EFIS systems.

Likewise the later DME systems are highly reliable unlike the earlier systems.

Both the KR87 ADK & KN63, 62 & 64 DME were designed by the same guy who frustrated by the Allied signal bean counters who took over King moved across the street to set up Garmin.

Sometimes technology reaches a plateau where there is no advantage in changing things, both the KR87 & KN 62,63 & 64 have reached that state.

While no one is going to put money into developing a better ADF system DME will be with us for some time and I am sure that if Garmin believed they could improve on the current DME systems they would.

Garmin clearly think both the King DME & ADF units are up to the mark because Garmin products are designed to integrate with them.

A_and_C wrote:

The first thing is the there is no future in your avionics, I would look at the cheapest option to give you a reasonable IFR aircraft would be to fit one GTN650 with a MOD from one of the normal players.

A GTN will always be a major modification, thus custom STC. Never had a custom made STC quoted under 10K. Just doesn’t make sense to me to spend a fortune on paperwork.

A non WAAS GNS can be installed with a minor change approval, so this option would IMHO make more sense. Topic starter indicated he didn’t want to do approaches, only enroute IFR, which a non WAAS can do. Wheter two is possible depends on the availability of old approvals. A second COM/NAV such as GNC-255A could do the job as well and could be installed under CS-STAN.