NCO.OP.190 Use of supplemental oxygen
(a) The pilot-in-command shall ensure that all flight crew members engaged in performing duties essential to the safe operation of an aircraft in flight use supplemental oxygen continuously whenever he/she determines that at the altitude of the intended flight the lack of oxygen might result in impairment of the faculties of crew members, and shall ensure that supplemental oxygen is available to passengers when lack of oxygen might harmfully affect passengers.
(b) In any other case when the pilot-in-command cannot determine how the lack of oxygen might affect all occupants on board, he/she shall ensure that:
(1) all crew members engaged in performing duties essential to the safe operation of an aircraft in flight use supplemental oxygen for any period in excess of 30 minutes when the pressure altitude in the the passenger compartment will be between 10 000 ft and 13 000 ft; and
(2) all occupants use supplemental oxygen for any period that the pressure altitude in the passenger compartment will be above 13 000 ft.
There are three applicable AMCs, but the only one which is particularly helpful is:
GM2 NCO.OP.190 Use of supplemental oxygen
DETERMINATION OF OXYGEN NEED — IN FLIGHT
Several methods for monitoring hypoxia early symptoms may be used and some methods may be aided by personal equipment, such as finger-mounted pulse oximeters.
So, taking all that together, NCO.OP.190 can be satisfied by the use of a finger oximeter and there is no requirement to carry oxygen.
The finger oximeters work well. However, getting up there, and finding there’s a problem is the worst way to do it. Many less than ideally fit people cannot even manage 10,000 feet for any length of time without oxygen. I have seen this myself more than once. Do not assume that yourself, nor other occupants of the aircraft are okay to be at 10,000, and 13,000 under the terms stated, and be adequately oxygenated. I’ve traveled for extended times (many hours) at 15,000 a few times, where oxygen was less than ideally available, it was not nice. I’ve twice been above 17,000 with no oxygen for just a few minutes, and it was not good. I have done altitude testing at 18,000 feet (Twin Otter – two of us pilots) with an oximeter. I deliberately got myself down to 98% saturation for about two minutes, and it was really not a nice feeling. Take oxygen along if going near 10,000, unless you are absolutely sure of the fitness of all of the occupants, and have a means to verify it in real time.
I deliberately got myself down to 98% saturation for about two minutes
I wonder if that is a typo, because sea level is 98-99% for most non-smokers.
cannot even manage 10,000 feet for any length of time without oxygen
I once flew with an instructor who didn’t want oxygen and could not read the instruments at FL120. With oxygen, all was fine within seconds.
Timothy wrote:
So, taking all that together, NCO.OP.190 can be satisfied by the use of a finger oximeter and there is no requirement to carry oxygen.
Thanks (for the whole post).
Pilot_DAR wrote:
Take oxygen along if going near 10,000, unless you are absolutely sure of the fitness of all of the occupants, and have a means to verify it in real time.
I often fly at 10,000ft and have no problem. I take passengers there (commercial, no oxygen required by the operator) and I have never had a problem with anyone, so I assume a problem at this level is more an exception than the rule.
What I am currently thinking about is if I can make a 30 min flight at 14-15,000ft with four people on board but oxygen only for me (pilot) and one passenger. Because otherwise any crossing of the Alps with more than one passenger will require me to have a second oxygen controller.
…….whenever he/she determines that at the altitude of the intended flight the lack of oxygen might result in impairment
Personally, despite the comments in the GM/AMC I don’t see how this can be done, especially with an oximeter which is just measuring the ‘now’ and not the future. In almost all practicality, OP.190 para (b) applies.
[Not directed at you personally, Dave] There are a lot of people who are uncomfortable with the new freedoms granted to private operators, but fortunately they lost the debate. That includes pilots who need to learn if/when to rely on these freedoms, or when to just use the AMC. How the pilot determines this is completely up to him or her. Of course doing this increases risk, they might get it wrong. But the regulator decided that this is he pilot/operator’s problem, nobody else’s.
So in Vladimir’s case he could come to the conclusion that the passengers should be fine for 30 mins at 14-15,000ft, either by looking at some medical literature or simply by looking at FAR 91.211 which allows this. While the FAR do not legally apply, it is hard to argue that the FAA rules are unsafe. And he as pilot wants to use Oxygen, anyway.
Or he could come to the conclusion that the risk of high altitude sickness, pulmonary edema, or the high likelihood of headaches isn’t worth it.
Dave_Phillips wrote:
Personally, despite the comments in the GM/AMC I don’t see how this can be done, especially with an oximeter which is just measuring the ‘now’ and not the future. In almost all practicality, OP.190 para (b) applies.
With experience… There is no guarantee that your “faculties” will not be impaired without oxygen even below FL 100 — especially at night.
Vladimir wrote:
Because otherwise any crossing of the Alps with more than one passenger will require me to have a second oxygen controller.
How about having two of these
http://feeloxy.com/shop/feeloxy-large-can-with-tube-and-mask/
at the passenger’s disposal, just in case they don’t feel well. However they (the cans) probably won’t last for the entire crossing of the alps. Maybe just for the period you need to fly 14-15k ft.
europaxs wrote:
How about having two of these
Thanks for the link. Actually, I am thinking of getting one of these as a quick backup for my system.
I very much doubt that will run for the 30 mins or so one needs… I suspect it is originally intended for someone who needs first aid.
