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Oxygen - equipment, getting refills, refill hoses, safety, etc

Sebastian S.
EDAZ, Germany

I believe that this is some equipment and no kits!!

Sebastian S.
EDAZ, Germany

They have DIN to 540 adaptors, and a couple of refill hoses, one for a DIN target and one for CGA540 target.

The Q which I would have is what thread is used on the large (oxygen company) source cylinders in Europe? In the UK it is called “BOC bullnose” and this is what it looks like (with the o-ring on it)

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter,

to be more precise, I am looking for tubing from:

FROM
[Scott 9/16-18 (male)] (plug on my Seneca 3)
TO
[NEN3268 RI2 female] (oxygen bottle standard in Belgium)
with the necessary valves and manometers in between.

MH Oxygen kits is the closest I have found but they miss the [NEN3268 RI2 female] connectors.

I am looking to a Europe continental shop that can assemble the whole thing.

I want to be able to do this on my Seneca:

Last Edited by Niner_Mike at 18 Mar 11:28
Abeam the Flying Dream
EBKT, western Belgium, Belgium

Your aircraft fitting

looks like the one in the link I posted above.

Your source cylinder fitting is the question I asked above. A google on “NEN3268 RI2 female” digs out a few sites, notably this PDF which somebody who makes air hoses ought to be able to recognise.

Belgium can’t be the only country using this.

I wonder how many aircraft owners on EuroGA are doing their own refills? I know a few but they are in the UK but they just got the hoses from the same place I did. Any scuba shop which does oxygen will use those fittings too. So who supplies specialist (trimix) scuba shops in Belgium?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Hm … good idea … I’ll ask my scuba dive shop (who refilled my MH bottle) !

Abeam the Flying Dream
EBKT, western Belgium, Belgium

Most likely you will rent an oxygen cylinder from the same place from which the scuba shop rents theirs. It will be the industrial gas factory down the road

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Welding oxygen is not breathing oxygen, use only breathing oxygen for breathing. Scuba shops and fire department breathing bottles are air, rather than oxygen, other than for specialized scuba diving. Compressed air will do you no good at altitude, gotta be pure breathing oxygen.

All the cautions about oils, greases etc. are valid.

If you are transferring from bottle to bottle, expect the receiving bottle to get hot, which is fine, if you’re ready for that to happen. The rate at which the oxygen is transferred will affect how hot things get. I know that when they used to refill our fire department SCBA bottles, the rate at which they were filled was based upon how hot they got during filling, rather than how fast the air could be transferred through the line.

If you buy a bottle of breathing oxygen to transfer into your plane’s system, you’ll only get half of it in, and waste the other half, unless you have an oxygen pump. Once the bottle pressures equalize, you can’t move any more across, unless you pump it. If you have multiple bottles (we use to use three), you can cascade them, and get more of the oxygen out, but never all of it. Thus you’ll always be wasting some amount of what you bought, unless you can pump.

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada

Certainly filling from a cylinder you waste a lot of gas, but not half, because you start with 3000psi and you don’t need 1500psi in the flying cylinder. Actually the flying cylinder is redlined at 150 bar / 2250psi so you can get a number of completely full refills.

Then how many “useful” refills you can get depends on whether the flying cylinder is tiny (like so many people use) or a big composite one (like the $600 MH “48 cu ft” one which does 2 people to Greece and back when starting at half full). I swap out my rented cylinder roughly every 2 years, when the flying cylinder can be filled to about 1/3 on the gauge (which is still enough for the longest European trip for 1 person). And I have two of the flying cylinders

And the gas itself is cheap. Scuba shops charged me anything from £3 to £60 (obviously £60 is a ripoff) and the swap-out cost of the huge cylinder is, here in the UK, about £30 which makes a refill cost something under £2.

Getting the big cylinders, which weren’t expensive, transformed the whole oxygen situation, by totally eliminating any need to refill on a trip, and by making any refilling hassle (if I used e.g. scuba shops, who were mostly hassle) infrequent enough.

AFAICT no scuba shop (certainly none I have ever used) has an oxygen pump. I looked for some a while ago and they cost quite a few k. Even scuba shops which have say 10 or 20 oxygen cylinders all interconnected up don’t find a pump worth buying.

The “welding” versus “aviation” oxygen debate is an old one In Europe it is all the same gas, made with the same process. There is only one process for making oxygen: cryogenic distillation. The paperwork differs, and in some cases the cylinders get evacuated before refilling.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I am about to buy one of these cylinders from Mountain High: https://www.mhoxygen.com/product/kevlar-cylinders/

They offer DIN-477 or CGA-540.

For flying in Europe and refilling at airports and/or scuba-shops, do I understand correctly that DIN-477 is more desirable? I checked in LSZH and they said they can do both, so not really helping. I understand Scuba Shops here have the DIN-477, but what about airports?

Switzerland
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