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STC holder permissions, and "only dealer installations allowed"

One element at the basis of permitting the use of the STC you hold, is the general expectation that the STC holder is responsible for service difficulty reporting, notifying and resolution. The STC holder cannot notify the owner of the aircraft with their mod incorporated, unless they know who they are. It is expected that if you have given someone permission to install, you know who they are, and retain that record. As an STC holder, I have been audited for this.

Yes, it could be AD'd but....

As the Technical Director for a company I used to "direct", I was made aware of an eligibility list error for one of our STC'd products (which could be traced right back to the same error on the TCDS for a Lycoming engine, which I had not noticed, when I copied it!). I was told by Transport Canada: "Prove you can contact every purchaser, or we'll put out an AD on your product". It looks really bed to have an AD on your product at all, so avoid at all costs!

I have the list. I personally contacted over 200 clients, and did confirm directly that the only possible misinstallation (by engine model) was the client who had contacted me. All was well... Well, nearly.

Fully ten percent, both in Canada and the US of the clients had misrepresented the aircraft upon which our product was installed. Our Lycoming oil pump body was apparently installed on several Cessna 180s (which are not equipped with Lycoming engines, except perhaps one rare STC), a Schweizer sailplane, and a Bell 212 helicopter.

Both TC and a the FAA agreed that if the owner misrepresented the installation, they were on their own.

The STC's I hold are paperwork only. Were I not to enforce the letter of authorization, a photocopier would put me out of that business! I know that some have been pirated, because I have received the calls back from new owners. :"I'm sorry sir, I have no record of a sale to that aircraft - the price for the replacement document you seek is $$."

It is a disincentive for small companies to invest in STC approvals, if a photocopier puts them out of business later, so the FAA protects them a little. It's a system with lots of leaks, but it sort of works. That said, I think Garmin could afford to remove any barriers to installation of their products...

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada

Very interesting to hear a point of view from the end of a "small business" STC holder...

Especially as I was thinking of doing an electronic design (a repair process actually, for an existing product) for which I would apply for an STC. That would be paper-only, most definitely.

Incidentally, is there any product liability on a paper-only STC holder? Presumably due diligence needs to be proven, but can one get insurance?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In an answer to whether their STC is for Avidyne dealers only, I got this

which would prevent me installing it because there is no UK avionics shop who I would let go anywhere near my plane, after the pretty horrible experience with the TAS605 and the “top” shop that did that. I have had no difficulty doing self-managed installs with an FAA Field Approval (except for the field approval itself, which was complicated, but an STC avoids that route) and could easily do the IFD540 install in the same way. I guess one could make it legal by getting an Avidyne dealer to supply the parts and process the paperwork, but not many will do that even though they would still make ~25% margin on the hardware supply alone.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Regardless of where the data comes from, the equipment manufacturer is responsible.

KUZA, United States

Most manufacturer choose to go for dealer install only. Bad installations can ruine their name.

Just simple crimping can be difficult for one time installers as crimpers are expensive, some solder these instead which often results in pins or sockets which can no longer be extracted. Have had this a couple of times on installation, only solution is to completly renew the connector.

Soldering is the same on other connections, not anyone who can solder has sufficient practical experiance to solder such that a reliable joint is made. The suggested margin is no way near the actual value. And a dealership doesn’t come free.

I think no good shop is going to do the sign-off for work they didn’t performed. This would be stupid for liability and warranty issues.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ
which would prevent me installing it because there is no UK avionics shop who I would let go anywhere near my plane,

Luckily there is intelligent life outside the island, too Go to Straubing, they’re good. They make mistakes but they always admit them and go to great lengths to fix them.

Crimping… we had a few threads on that here – example Much depends on where you are coming from. If

  • you can solder well (most installers can’t), and
  • you have good access (making a cable harness up on a bench being a good example), and
  • the connectors are available in high quality heavy-gold milspec solder bucket versions (many aren’t available in s/bucket at all, and the 3-row DBs are difficult to find in non-crap versions), and
  • the wires are properly secured, strain relieved, and do not move around, and
  • you can put in the extra time to heatshrink over the solder buckets

then soldering is great

They make mistakes but they always admit them and go to great lengths to fix them.

Yes, I am really interested in a shop which makes mistakes, admits them, and fixes them – NOT. I need a flight to S. Germany with a half functioning plane like I need a hole in the head. The first time I collected the TCAS installation (a well known Avidyne+Garmin dealer) I discovered, about to taxi out, shortly before sunset, that the instrument lights were all duff, because they pulled out some connector. No problem… I carry a head torch

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Yes, I know. I do both soldering / crimping depending on the kind of job.

Just a while ago I was working on a factory build light aircraft. It was fitted with Garmin equipment from the manufacturer. At the factory somewhen decided not to use the metal backshell and strain relief, and to solder the SUB-D crimp contacts. A wire was broken (logically, no strain relief). The extraction tool won’t fit around the pin body as these are coated lightly with tin. Make this one broken wire an expensive repair. And a repair that wasn’t needed at all if it was correctly installed.

Every company make mistakes. For example with the GTN installation for PMH
Had done a runup after installation, and a compass swing. When he wanted to leave the RPM stopped (caused by a poor crimp joint from the factory combined with some mechnicall stress during installation). I think it is good the made it a fair review, and also described that problem.

Yet I am fully behind all work I have done and will do the best to help my customers. Now one of the customers is flying a GNC-255A loaner as the installed GNC-255A had issues. I exchanged the unit at my customers airport for a free loaner, however the loaner doesn’t come free to a dealer / me.

As Achimha says surely their are good shops around Europe, and I am sure their are in the UK as well. There are bad shops all around as well.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ

Yes, I am really interested in a shop which makes mistakes, admits them, and fixes them – NOT

Every shop/installer makes mistakes, you’ll never have a larger avionics job that is squawk free. What I learned the hard way is how cheap it can be to use the most expensive shop that actually knows every device and has all testers/manuals and experienced every possible problem in the past. Usually new avionics get connected to existing avionics and strange problems show up. Then you need experts for each device and the option to bench test it on site. That’s why I would never again go to a smaller shop.

The situation in the UK is that you have three “big” shops (FAA & EASA 145 & EASA 21) and a load of smaller ones.

Of the three…

  1. understands nothing beyond the wiring diagrams in the back of the MM
  2. has a brilliantly clever “boss” but he spends most of his time on bizjet AOG work, the remainer of his guys are like #1, and they do “inventive” charges for certification work (e.g. 2000 quid for a DER package, when there is an AML STC)
  3. is like #1 and otherwise average – see below

1 did my TCAS bodges, and more importantly showed little interest in what actually went wrong
2 did a few jobs for me, but I don’t like to be ripped off, and when the head guy is not there, they are just average
3 did about five jobs for me and all of them were bodged (on the last one I had to hoover out a pile of metal cuttings from behind the panel, and put in some plastic edge strips to prevent cables getting cut on sharp edges of bulkheads)

I am not going to identify them openly, although identifying #1 might save somebody’s life one day.

The smaller ones generate wildly varying customer feedback. I have used a few of them and they are OK if you know about avionics and micro-manage the job – probably something that irritates them massively. One of them, as an example, quotes on the basis of “the customer is responsible for all certification” which is outrageous because they will install a GNS530W and you get no AFMS etc. Probably 99% of non-IFR-aware non-techy non-anorak customers (so maybe 90% of the pilot population) will never realise the significance and will be happy…

It’s not a good situation.

But flying to S Germany for rectification is going to cost 1000 quid in avgas alone, plus hotels, so maybe 2000 quid plus the value of my time, so is not going to happen. Also I know a number of people who have been there and all of them had (told me privately) major issues with the work – though all were rectified.

For me, the 2 × IFD540 would be the very last significant avionics update ever. I need to wait about a year for the product to be debugged.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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