I actually disagree on the UK shops. I think we have to be careful not to extrapolate from one person’s bad experience to a blanket view on any organisation particularly without hearing both sides of the story. I happen to know one of Peter’s numbered avionics firms and they are excellent in my experience. Maybe I just got lucky, who knows.
Did you inspect under the covers, Jason?
In any case, everybody is entitled to base decisions on their own experience.
Did you inspect under the covers, Jason?
I actually did as did a very good shop in Boston that did some work while I was over there.
In any case, everybody is entitled to base decisions on their own experience.
Absolutely. That was my point.
It is certainly the case that within a larger shop you will have different people doing the work, and some are better than others.
I know the #1 shop in my case is like that, but even if you know who is good, you are not (politically) in a position to say who should do the work.
So yes there will be a number of factors behind why one person is happy and another person is not. However I am very sure that the most common factor is simply that most people never inspect the work, which is a pretty self evident fact!
Some of the best avionics people I have known have no approvals and they have to work in a hangar whose occupant has the approval(s). I work with one such guy. He can’t do anything I can’t do and needs a drawing to work to but he does it in half the time, and we work well together, pulling wires through, etc. I have the “1000 quid” crimp tool too, though I always solder+heatshrink where there is access because it enables me to use top quality milspec connectors. Last time I crimped a DB25 was on an EDM700 extension cable where the thermocouple wire can’t be (practically) soldered, and that connector was a Positronic one which cost an absolute fortune.
Anyway, slightly back to the topic… does the Garmin GTN AML STC limit the authority to Garmin dealers?
Peter,
You are a strange guy with an impeccable knowledge .. But also with a strong determination not to accept the obvious choices, but go with the other choices…
I think it will be very hard for any shop to meet your standards .. And saying that does not mean I disagree woth your standards .. But just yhat you put them very high.
As for the IFD540 …
Great choice .. Excellent device
Most panelmount Garmin equipment is dealer install only. There are a few exemptions for simple to install panel mount equipment for experimental aircraft. Complex equipment for experimental aircraft should be delivered pre-wired. This includes devices such as GTN. It should be recorded. If you would buy equipment as “experimental” you will not have warranty as your TB-20 is not eligible for this.
Most panelmount Garmin equipment is dealer install only
My question was specific to whether the STC is specifically limited to dealers only.
I have a few Avidyne IMs (no IFD ones though) in my collection and the STCs in them are not thus limited. The TAS605 STC is not thus limited, too. Anybody can install it and use the STC to support the 337. Does anyone have an IM for an IFD box?
Have they changed this on the IFD products?
If the STC is not limited to an authorised dealer then anybody can install the unit, legally, send off the 337, and there is nothing the manufacturer can do about it – it would be a pure restriction of trade to try that and I doubt they would try it in Europe.
Note this is not the same discussion as to whether Avidyne would “like” to sell their gear only via authorised dealers. Of course they do! Historically nobody in certified avionics would officially sell direct, though many have done openly for years (e.g. Honeywell sell new gear openly via e.g. South East Aerospace).
Complex equipment for experimental aircraft should be delivered pre-wired
One can buy a lot of avionics from the US discount dealers (Sarasota, Gulf Aero, etc) with an “experimental aircraft harness” and that enables them to sell it directly to anybody. How do I know this? 
In practice, you get the standard 8130-3 and there is no sign of any “experimental harness”… It’s a joke. I now see they have stopped advertising this option…
If you would buy equipment as “experimental” you will not have warranty as your TB-20 is not eligible for this.
FWIW, there was a Garmin official posting on a US forum, and I asked him openly about this, so he had to reply. He essentially said Garmin run a separate programme for homebuilt aircraft customers, where they offer a warranty, but they need some evidence like the aircraft registration. This was the context where they would sell a GTN750 for $14k to anybody. Avidyne must do the same; in fact they sold some pre-cert IFD boxes to pilots flying in the Exp category, for beta testing (one of them was openly posting his findings). These firms can’t be too unhappy about this because they get the full list price, without any dealer discount taken off, and that is a massive gross margin increase.
These firms must have official support for homebuilts, not least because the only way to fly any GPS approach is with a certified GPS. Products such as Dynon cannot be used to fly GPS approaches; they work only enroute. So all the Exp pilots in the USA must be installing Garmin or Avidyne GPS boxes, if they want any meaningful IFR capability. This is true for all homebuilts worldwide because no uncertified GPS does approaches – the Jeppesen data is simply not there.
So the question really comes down to whether an installation is legal if the product was purchased for a homebuilt aircraft tail number Nxxxx and ends up installed in a certified aircraft tail number Nyyyy. The FAA, filing the 337+STC away, is not going to care via which channel the hardware was supplied.
As with any FAA or EASA STC it is only valid for the holder, and those who receive a written approval letter. The same applies to EASA minor changes, you can not just copy the actual approval and install it in accordance that copy. You should ask the STC holder for approval.
For sure it is more limited due to trading.
One can buy a lot of avionics from the US discount dealers (Sarasota, Gulf Aero, etc) with an “experimental aircraft harness” and that enables them to sell it directly to anybody. How do I know this? In practice, you get the standard 8130-3 and there is no sign of any “experimental harness”… It’s a joke. I now see they have stopped advertising this option…
Sure they can. However how did you register for warranty? For warranty registration with certified aircraft you will need a dealer log-entry and invoice (when you claim warranty).
Basically what you are saying, is that you would prefer to buy from US as an experimental aircraft, install it yourself elsewhere, as you can not install it in your own hangar, and have it signed off by somewhen else, instead of an EU installation. That why you don’t have warranty, and might not have access to all right tools and equipment / software. I do know you have quite some gear. Problems interfacing with other equipment suchs as described by Achimha will be hard to get solved.
I regular come across people who have bought equipment directly in the US as that saved them a few hundreds on the equipment. and end up spending more than they would have done at any European shop. Sure it can be done, but for most, it just won’t make sense.
IME, the warranty registration is ok if the manufacturer supports the sale, which if via the route I described they surely do; they know all about it…
I think you must be right about the other route however – unless the homebuilt owner processes it for you.
I would actually try to buy the equipment via a proper dealer since the price to me would be almost the same. But that would preclude me designing and managing the installation – unless I could work closely with the installer. 2 × IFD540 is a pretty big job – the whole centre stack has to come out, and Socata did run a number of wires straight in, ignoring the multipole connectors so some inline connectors would need to be installed.
An AML STC doesn’t need the individual STC holder’s permission. Normally there is a blanket authorisation in there. But yes if you need the ATC holder’s permission and can’t get it, you are stuffed (technically speaking).
Commander – sometimes one does end up annoying people when trying to learn and exploring the boundaries, and I do that quite often 
