Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Random avionics internals

LeSving wrote:

I’m not making the mess, it IS a mess. It has become a mess in later years since the authority stopped approving stuff by testing etc.

Who told you this? We are testing all kinds of stuff to show compliance with certification specifications all the time, it’s a completely valid method to show compliance.

mh
Aufwind GmbH
EKPB, Germany

Peter wrote:

I don’t think you can buy a G1000.

OK, I guess this could also mean that the g900x is just a “generic” g1000, not certified for any particular aircraft, perhaps?

mh wrote:

Who told you this? We are testing all kinds of stuff to show compliance with certification specifications all the time, it’s a completely valid method to show compliance

I know. It’s just that the telecom authority won’t do it themselves anymore, not in Norway at least. I had direct contact with the man who actually approved the MGL for 25 kHz some years back. He still works in the same office. MGL could send him test reports showing it would adhere to standards for ground equipment, but MGL didn’t want to do it because they had made the radio according to aviation standards, and didn’t see the point. I just think it’s strange that Trig manages to manufacture certified units of high quality at reasonable prices and others don’t.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

A King indicator under test with the circuit board fitted to a extender to allow adjustment.

I just think it’s strange that Trig manages to manufacture certified units of high quality at reasonable prices and others don’t.

I would suggest they do it because, ahem, it’s not difficult! The fundamentals of radio were worked out by Maxwell well over 100 years ago (tongue in cheek) and the way to design and build a VHF radio (PLL synth + a micro for the user interface etc) has been trivial for at least 20 years; actually you could build the most modern radio using bits which are never less than 20 years old (and arguably any designer should use “commodity” parts because they are much cheaper). I looked at developing a KX155-style plug-compatible radio a few years ago (8.33 obviously, etc, etc and with some slick features) and any half smart analog+digital electronics designer can do it in a few weeks. The building blocks have been in place for many years. It’s actually a really fun project which exercises all the different bits of one’s old brain

What stops everybody and their dog heading for obvious holes in the market (e.g. an 8.33 replacement for a KX155) is peripheral stuff e.g.

  • 8.33 not needed in the USA
  • European certification without FAA certification limits the market but getting FAA for a European company is hard work
  • the US market is not anal on paperwork so e.g. you can transfer a “working when removed” radio from one plane to another
  • Ebay avionics sales provide a “social security safety net” for the really poor pilots
  • everywhere, dealers like to handle old proven gear even if it is well sub-optimal (Avidyne have a big problem with this, with most of their dealers pushing Garmin)

and when you put all this together, you can see why people don’t bother. It’s not because there is any problem making a VHF radio.

A King indicator under test with the circuit board fitted to a extender to allow adjustment.

I could never understand why this was done so stupidly. It’s not hard to locate trimpots so they can be reached. The KFC225 autopilot has some trimpots in the side of it and thus needs a $1500 extender (which I have, bought jointly with another pilot) but the whole thing is digital so they had ample other ways to do it. Even the KX165A uses “digital trimmers” (a digital attenuator with an EEPROM) so they can trim stuff via the user interface.

Cynically, one might think that this is done to keep field repairs to the authorised dealers who are required to spend thousands of $ on this kit. I once took my plane to UK’s biggest avionics shop (well, there are two but the other doesn’t have a clue) and they didn’t have this KFC225 extender. They had the kit, in a bag, and I helped them assemble it (hours of crimping terminal pins). I was amazed at this, since the KFC225 is not exactly uncommon.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The thing that amazes me about the Shadin device early in the thread is not the electrolytics but the chips in sockets.

We make a lot of equipment for tractors and construction machinery which has to withstand much more vibration than in an aircraft, and surface mount electronics is amazingly good in this respect, if properly designed.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

Peter wrote:

I once tried to launch a BASEEFA approved product and the guy on the phone practically told me to get lost!

Perhaps he had seen your forum posts that talk of certification bodies and quality systems in the same terms as nasty stuff you step on in the park….

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

LeSving wrote:

I just think it’s strange that Trig manages to manufacture certified units of high quality at reasonable prices and others don’t.

I haven’t checked the prices but I believe Becker has a similar offering. There was also I think Funkwerk. Another company called Air Avionics I believe was also working on a radio of similar form factor so the price shouldn’t be that different (IIRC their head unit could control both a VHF radio and a transponder), but don’t know if it ever made production.

Martin wrote:

There was also I think Funkwerk.

It still exists, but is called f.u.n.k.e. now (http://www.funkeavionics.de/aktuelle-mitteilungen.html?&L=1). Becker, f.u.n.k.e., (and to some extent also Airplus/Dittel) offer 8,33kHz capable certified radios in the price range from 1100-2000 Euros, same as Trig, as well as “low cost” mode S transponders.

EDDS - Stuttgart

LeSving wrote:

I just think it’s strange that Trig manages to manufacture certified units of high quality at reasonable prices and others don’t.

I think this is true, and is not true due to pricing, as the Trig is more expensive then the others, they quality is at a different (higher) level than that of the other players on this part of the market. In my experiance these other brands don’t offer high quality equipment.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ
Trig manages to manufacture certified units of high quality at reasonable prices and others don’t.

Trig are very good, that’s why I bought their gear, and will again. But they’re not the only ones. The world is not as black-and-white as you seem to like to think.

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top