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SkyEcho - low cost ADS-B (approved UK only)

here

They have done it as a “portable” device i.e. uncertified, but they seem to have obtained some UK approval for the radiation.

This is a bit strange however:

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

From the info:

An EC device cannot be used at the same time as a transponder and it doesn’t replace the need for a transponder when required by airspace/flight rules. If your aircraft is fitted with a working transponder, you must switch off the transmitter function of your EC device. SkyEcho ATT-20B provides this functionality.

A very short lived device? On another view, it would be legal in Norway (IMO) on experimental and microlights (or any other non certified flying machine) – and – can be used, but only as long as no transponder is installed.

This is more of a FLARM competitor than a real ADS-B by the looks of it. (Gliders are allowed to turn off their transponders). But a FLARM can be used together with a transponder or ADS-B (important for towing airplanes and TMGs)

[edit] I think I get it. This is effectively just an ADS-B in device to display other aircraft on a pad via WiFi. As such, it is allowed to be used everywhere, in any aircraft since it is portable. It’s similar to this or this, only twice the price.

Last Edited by LeSving at 22 Jan 10:46
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

This is effectively just an ADS-B in device to display other aircraft on a pad via WiFi

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Yes, but :

An EC device cannot be used at the same time as a transponder and it doesn’t replace the need for a transponder when required by airspace/flight rules. If your aircraft is fitted with a working transponder, you must switch off the transmitter function of your EC device. SkyEcho ATT-20B provides this functionality

Using this in an the average certified small GA airplane will effectively make it an ADS-B in device only. Maybe in the UK people find a way to make this work also as ADS-B out, I don’t know, but other places it will exclusively be an ADS-B in device.

It looks interesting. But, for anyone with a Trig transponder, they can install the TN-72 GPS receiver ($300), hook it up to the TT-21, and they have ADS-B out for traffic avoidance here in Europe and mode S for ATC. Then install one of the existing ADS-B in devices at $300.

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

So, what is the use of this thing? It might appeal to pilots who

  • live in the UK
  • fly mostly or wholly OCAS
  • want to be visible
  • aren’t bothered about the “privacy stuff” which makes people turn off Mode S

but almost no GA can see the emissions, so this is another bet on the future growth of compatible equipment carriage.

Will TAS systems with the ADS-B option (the Garmin TAS, or the Avidyne TAS 6xx with the – currently-vapourware – ADS-B add-on) see the emissions from this system? If not, then this is a really long bet and IMHO a total waste of time and money (even less useful than FLARM is in the UK for powered GA).

Maybe @wigglyamp knows?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Will TAS systems with the ADS-B option (the Garmin TAS, or the Avidyne TAS 6xx with the – currently-vapourware – ADS-B add-on) see the emissions from this system?

Given that the GPS is WAAS capable and has RAIM, I suspect the SIL setting will be >0. Perhaps ask the vendor what the SIL is?

Their FAQ states:

Can other aircraft see me?

Yes. Any aircraft equipped with ADS-B IN capability can see you. This includes other EC devices as well as installed avionics, and other third party systems such as the Garmin GDL39, PilotAware and Flarm.

Last Edited by alioth at 23 Jan 10:48
Andreas IOM

The device is certified to the requirements of CAA CAP1391. CAP1391 local copy This makes it suitable as an ADS-B OUT source only for use in aircraft that don’t have a transponder.

Under CAP1391, the SIL has to be set to ‘0’ (see table 4) and as a consequence, any certified traffic display will ignore it, although all of the other ADS-B IN systems such as PowerFlarm, PAW etc will see it and allow display on a tablet. This is the same problem which has been highlighted with EASA for any of the ADS-B OUT systems such as those using an approved ES-transponder but with a non-certified GPS, and work is on-going to find a route where perhaps the SIL can be ‘1’, but the SDA remains at ‘0’ so ATC will still ignore it for separation purposes but all aircraft will be able to see each other for situational awareness.

From a thread on another forum, the makers of this device state that their GPS engine is capable of meeting SIL=1 and are working with the CAA for a potential change to allow them to transmit this, and hence allow the transmitting aircraft be seen by a wider audience.

Last Edited by wigglyamp at 23 Jan 11:04
Avionics geek.
Somewhere remote in Devon, UK.

wigglyamp wrote:

Under CAP1391, the SIL has to be set to ‘0’ (see table 4) and as a consequence, any certified traffic display will ignore it, although all of the other ADS-B IN systems such as PowerFlarm, PAW etc will see it and allow display on a tablet

Does this mean the same thing will happen with the new Trig device? Or will those certified devices see the Mode S ?

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

I think a lot of people are heading for this “FLARM/GDL90 protocol” receiver thing. Skydemon has just popped up on FB saying they will do this on an Ipad.

The problem is that almost nobody is radiating the stuff in the first place…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In fairness I think SkyDemon already have the GDL90 protocol. They certainly do have the Flarm one.

EasyVFR has both also, but also includes the attitude part of the GDL90 protocol which others don’t include.

Last Edited by dublinpilot at 25 Jan 15:22
EIKH Kilrush
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