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Mandatory PBN training (merged)

I did PBN theory with Scandlearn

LPFR, Poland

I didn’t do any course, was told to have a look at the PPL/IR manual, and then did one approach on my renewal.

That would not work as of 1 year ago, apparently. Some kind of recognised course was required for the UK CAA.

The CAA sat on my IR application for 9 months, until I wrote to their chief executive who kicked some butts, so when the IR came through it had only 3 months left on it, but that’s another story. I think the CAA is “short of competent personnel”; this became painfully apparent during some phone calls I had with them

However, the Oysterair one is dead easy; I didn’t read anything whatsoever before doing it and passing it. As per previous discussion, the PBN manual is great but for actual IFR you need to know at most 10% of it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Thanks. I’ll give Oysterair a go, as I’ll probably will work with them in the near future on the TBM rating.

The CAA PBN declaration form says:

I hereby declare that I meet the requirements laid down in article 4a of Commission Regulation (EU) No1178/2011 regarding PBN-privileges by:
* Having completed a theoretical and practical training course in PBN with copy of the course completion certificate attached to this document.
* OR Previous training and familiarity with PBN operations through flying for an AoC holder with RNP approach approval.
* AND A successfully completed skill test or proficiency check where I have demonstrated competence in PBN operations in accordance with appendix 7 or 9 to Part-FCL.

Theoretical AND practical training course kinda concerns me….

Last Edited by NorFlyer at 12 Sep 08:05
Norway, where a gallon of avgas is ch...
ENEG

In Croatia the examiner issues you PBN theoretical knowledge certificate prior to check ride. There is a list of PBN topics issued by CAA, the examiner has to ask you 10 questions covering at least 5 different topics, you have to provide correct answers to at least 8 questions and you get pass. I did this few days ago when revalidating my IR.

In Croatia declaration form says:

I hereby declare that I meet requirements laid down in Article 4a of Commission Regulation (EU) No. 1178/2011 regarding training for PBN operations gained through:
 Flying for operator with PBN approval, or
 Previous familiarity with with PBN concept.

I ticked later, answered the questions prior to check flight and that was it.

Last Edited by Emir at 12 Sep 08:18
LDZA LDVA, Croatia

These national variations in EASA are just ridiculous…

Norway, where a gallon of avgas is ch...
ENEG

As I have said before many times, this whole PBN business is a job creation measure, necessary since GPS caused the bottom to drop out of the navigation business. Some 90% of the syllabus is nonsense; not applicable to real IFR.

In HI-FI, when the CD came along and basically killed the business, this was addressed by gold plated mains plugs, €500 RCA cables, 24 bit DACs (interpolating the 16 bit data coming off the CD), etc.

This is why I can fly all over Europe with a KLN94 + KMD550 – except for LPV of course.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

this whole PBN business is a job creation measure

While I’ve been flying these approaches practically since they had been installed in Europe, my examiner flew his first one just recently

Last Edited by Emir at 12 Sep 09:42
LDZA LDVA, Croatia

From here

You don’t need PBN to fly IFR, especially if only using conventional instruments.

I believe GA needs to fly on an IFR GPS to satisfy RNP for airways, older big iron might be able to meet the RNP using DME/DME

Having a second source of terrestrial navigation is also required, which could be a radar control service.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

IIUC you only need the equipment necessary for the intended flight.
To fly an ILS, a VOR an NDB or DME/DME does not necessarily require RNAV. Only RNAV requires PBN. And only some of that.
It may well be that it is in practice, these days, and for many European flights, it is impossible without RNAV and without PBN.🙂

France

NorFlyer wrote:

These national variations in EASA are just ridiculous…

Not to mention, in this case, illegal. Is there a procedure one can use to get EASA to intervene?

Biggin Hill
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