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Mountain hit again.... 2 planes in Vars valley

Hello fellow pilots,
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/267025
and
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/267021

August is a hard month for GA, 2 german planes did crash in the Vars Valley in France, on that Sunday. From the articles, what we know is that a first group of 2 planes from a german airclub fly-in at Gap, did a flight from Gap LFNA to Saint Crepin LFNC, then to Barcelonette LFMR by the Vars Valley, around mid day.
Weather was anticyclonic but north wind in the valley du Rhones that makes Mistral, makes sometimes a strong north west wind over the alpes du Sud. We also know well that, when anticyclonic weather in force, the weather in that area could get rapidly crap with strong TCU, but this is not reported.
After Saint Crepin, the first 2-planes group climb to the valley of Vars to the pass (2100m) aiming Barcelonette by the Ubaye, 100% scenic and great.
Over the Vars ski resort, one of the 2 planes (SR20) takes wide (and low from the witnesses near the crete de l’Eyssina and crashed near the “Sibieres” Slope and lift of the same name.
The Vars valley is tricky when you take it North to South, as it may get you in wrong part of the valley, and is also going narrower and narrower to the top. At the top, if you are not over the pass road, you can be exposed to downdraft that can be very hard, especially under the crete de l’eyssina.

This is the entry of the valley, the left dot is the second crash estimated site, the rightest one is the first crash site (under the crest), much higher. The line is the pass location.


The simulated planes is over the slopes of Vars, the cross is around where the SR20 went down. The picture shows impression of security when this high, but 500ft lower and in the downdraft, this was probably a nightmare a you are surrounded by relief…

Once you go through the pass, you can take a shallow descent along the Ubaye to Barcelonettes, also it could be shaky, as you are sometimes surrounded by crest (from La condamine until Jausier), until the very wide Valley of Barcelonette.
Barcelonette is a 09/27 very close to the Mountain on the south, circuit is South just over electric lines.

On the first FS image, plane is ~7000ft, but this C172 did a 360 climb over Saint Crepin and I suppose the FS cessna is a top notch climber :/. Ground level is from 1650m on the first village on the left, ski resort on the right is 1800 to 1850m. I did this in a DR400-180 in summer time with less wind, and by security I did a 360 over Guillestre before to enter the Vars Valley. If you don’t climb before, you could be either short of performance and/or taken in downdraft.

The second plane (FR172) that crashed, departed 3 hour laters, may be to have a life sign of the first crashed plane, but didn’t arrive this far, and for unknown reason, crashed over Sainte Catherine.

Apparently only injuries, but one of the passengers when to Grenoble in high emergency.
(sorry for the typo in the title – Peter could you fix it, I can’t edit the title…)

Last Edited by greg_mp at 24 Aug 08:24
LFMD, France

I spoke to someone who flies in Sisteron/Barcelonette, he mentioned it’s “normal for him” to hear one or two visiting aircrafts crashing every summer since the last 15 years he was retiring and flying in that place…

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

@greg_mp thanks for the interesting analysis and background information. Puts the pieces of the puzzle into some order. However, still puzzling why one would be willingly flying so low with underpowered aircraft (NA in 2000+ m) in a valley with a topography like this. Sounds like zero mountain experience to me? The first one made a “loud sound”, maybe they had some engine trouble or the like. But the second one, C172, 3 POB in that density altitude, it will not outclimb anything. And with the valley being so flat, you do not have escape routes if you’re very low and hit by downdrafts.

Germany

UdoR wrote:

But the second one, C172, 3 POB in that density altitude, it will not outclimb anything.

This particular C172 is reported in the OP’s link to have been a Reims Rocket, presumably meaning it had 210 HP six cylinder engine versus being the 150 HP version.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 24 Aug 16:17

Silvaire wrote:

This particular C172 is reported in the OP’s link to have been a Reims Rocket, presumably meaning it had 210 HP six cylinder engine versus being the 150 HP version.

Yes I can attest to the type not being a poor climber, also it is CS prop further enhancing climb.

Antonio
LESB, Spain

Hi @greg_mp , has there been any further news?

It seems weird that:

a) a simple but powerful version of a 172 runs out of terrain clearance so close to the other aircraft recent crash location yet in a relatively wide valley with lots of space to turn around (over 1.5 km) and still significant clearance over the bottom of the valley (at least 700ft)

b) a plane with a chute is in one of the few non-take-off/landing situations where it does not help those onboard (seems it was not pulled?) . The SR20 had even more space and altitude above the bottom of the valley, but it is generally more underpowered than the Rocket. If wx was hot then they could easily have been close to 10000ft density altitude where they would have been limited to around 65% pwr (this is still close to 140hp for the Rocket, so plenty for a Skyhawk…unless it is simply trying to fight a any significant downdraft )

Antonio
LESB, Spain

My latter sentence made me think of a situation adamant to fighter pilot’s target fixation I lived early in my (road vehicle-) driving career, longer ago than I care to remember.

It was the typical situation where I was driving behind the car in front when the traffic light ahead of us turned from green to yellow.
The car in front accelerated as if to drive through the lights (and I followed the same intent) but then he suddenly changed his mind and stepped on the brakes to stop at the lights. I braked hard but had left my distance diminish sufficiently that I ended up (barely) hitting it, despite my heavy concentration on non locking the non-ABS wheels for max braking.
There were empty lanes to its left and its right but I simply fixated on braking rather than steering aside and clear of him which would have been a non-event. I obviously learnt better since…

Could it be that non-mountain experienced pilots fixate too much on getting the most climb out of their aircraft in a performance-limited situation (downdraft or miscalculation or whatever) and forget that the main out in such situations is the proverbial one-eighty?

I thought it was worth reminding.

Antonio
LESB, Spain

Antonio wrote:

Could it be that non-mountain experienced pilots fixate too much on getting the most climb out of their aircraft in a performance-limited situation (downdraft or miscalculation or whatever) and forget that the main out in such situations is the proverbial one-eighty?

One thing that kicked when doing mountain gliding was that you don’t need power to get out of -3kfpm sink? or avoid stall in +2kfpm thermal? but you still go for the wrong stick input when caught by surprise in 50ms before you revert to the correct one !

Last Edited by Ibra at 25 Aug 15:53
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I can think of a possible scenario here:

SR20: low-land pilots who once again totally underestimate the effects of DA and mountain wave (if there was one). This seems to be a recurring theme through every summer in mountainous terrain, anywhere in the world but perhaps a bit more pronounced in Europe as the Alps are so close to the lowlands. Also, an SR20 is effectively a relatively underpowered two-seater, depending on the weights of the two occupants (and possible bags), they may well have been at or close to MTOW.

C172: rubbernecking and LOC. Put yourself into the position of the pilot. One of his buddies has disappeared, feared crashed, they go to check. Prob90 making blind radio calls and having their eyes out on the ground all the time. See something, circle and forget to fly the airplane. Wouldn’t have been the first time.

The good thing about this dual crash is that they all walked (or at least got carried) out alive.

Ibra wrote:

but you still go for the wrong stick input when caught by surprise in 50ms before you revert to the correct one !

I guess that goes away with training…and a lot of mental exercise on the ground prior to flying: do not fight a downdraft by pulling up unless you have an F-16!

Antonio
LESB, Spain
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